U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-03-2011, 01:52 AM
 
250 posts, read 299,613 times
Reputation: 140

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
The constitution never meant to provide benefits for illegal migrants.



Birthright citizenship was never meant to provide a means for illegal migrants to come here and claim benefits. Many nations do not grant someone citizenship unless at least one parent is a citizen. Our country should follow. We owe nothing to people who are here in violation of our immigration laws. Their children should derive citizenship from the nationality of their parents not from their parent's unlawful actions.



Coming the United States without permission is a criminal act. Most illegal migrants commit multiple crimes. They violate laws governing employment, laws governing the right to drive and laws mandating tax payment. An illegal alien is inherently a criminal. He should be treated as such.



Most Americans do not support allowing illegal migrants to come to the United States without permission. Most Americans do not support paying the birthing costs for an illegal migrant's baby nor do they support giving the illegal alien permission to collect welfare benefits from the United States taxpayer merely because they have given birth.

You are mistaken if you believe otherwise. Supporting rational immigration laws that do not reward illegal behavior does not make one a racist.



Again most Americans do not support giving the offspring of illegal migrants benefits. Said anchor babies impose tremendous costs on American taxpayers. This is not a liberal vs. conservative issue. This is an issue that deserves to be confronted. Illegal migrants should not get unilateral permission to have a baby and force Americans to give them money as a result.




Again this is not a left right issue. This is an issue that transcends both parties.



Americans have utterly no need whatsoever for unskilled laborers. They contribute absolutely nothing at all our society. Legalizing them will not lead to them paying taxes as most make far too little to pay anything at all into the federal coffers. We have enough high school drop outs as it is. The purpose of our laws is not to provide for the needs of people so foolish as to breed children they cannot support and will not educate.

Any comprehensive immigration reform should include a crackdown on anchor babies, a firm message to Mexico and other Latino countries that Americans are not going to learn Spanish or welcome their low skilled junior high school drop outs and the ending of all welfare benefits including the right to attend our schools just because you walked across the borders without permission.



Yes. I agree. Confronting the costs that illegal migrants impose on Americans is an adult choice. Better to simply pat oneself on the back, declare oneself a non-racist and argue that Americans should be responsible for the needs of poor people with too many children everywhere. If the evil overconsuming middle class gets hurt in the process well even better.

I don't understand what learning Spanish as a way of punishing Mexico has to do with anything... Americans are not learning Spanish anyway, I think is the other way around the immigrants learn English and lose Spanish.

Denying school would just create more poverty, instead of ending with moderately educated immigrants you end up with completely uneducated immigrants, does not solve the problem it creates an additional one. What do you do with all the uneducated people? Deport them? Wouldn't they come back again?

Denying citizenship as well complicates things more than what it solves, migration was not necessarily motivated by obtaining citizenship or citizenship for the children they do not yet have, they were looking for money. I'm not saying they do not have children down the line, my point is, the initial motivator is not the citizenship but money.

Removing "benefits" will not stop migration, I'm sure that most illegal immigrants where not even aware of many of these things to begin with and they still crossed the border. Many live in poor conditions, and are still here, there is a belief that they become rich out of welfare, I don't know how they carry all that money and still manage to look poor.

To me the real solution is to stop employment. Remove the possibility to work and then there will be less immigration. Why is the government not penalizing employers who hire illegals? It is easier to target the employers than the immigrants. This is the root of the problem, illegal immigrants are willing to work for less, and employers are attracted to this offering. It seems to me that the one restricting jobs and lowering the average salary, and avoiding or paying less taxes are the US employers. Or do you disagree?

Also, what is it with the negative charged words?

Criminals:
You accuse MOST illegal immigrants of multiple crimes. Are you talking about crossing the border and working illegally? Or of being murderers, rapists, robbers? There is a huge difference. Otherwise most US citizens would be criminals too, right? Or haven't most US citizens violated traffic laws? Smoked pot? Hire illegals?

Anchor baby:
De-humanizes, plain and simple... it implies that all illegal immigrants have children as a way of obtaining citizenship, the baby stops being a child, its a requirement. The term implies that you have the baby as a way of obtaining citizenship which is practically not true, the "anchor" has to be an adult to sponsor their parents +10 years of ban + 2 years of approval, that ends up in 30 years of process, it seems like the anchor had a very long chain.

You mention this has nothing to do with racism, but to me it still sounds there is a level of racism underneath the surface. Otherwise why would you need to use derogatory wording?

What is the percentage of immigrants that are real criminals? Is that percentage different from people living in the same economic conditions? Are you sure they contribute nothing to society, how are you measuring this? What about driving down food prices? What about the ones that do pay taxes and will never claim benefits back? Can you really count the money used for schooling and health as a full loss? How different is the level of dropouts from illegals than to US citizens in similar economic conditions? How much money did corporations "saved" by hiring a cheaper worker?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-03-2011, 04:42 AM
 
47,585 posts, read 36,011,377 times
Reputation: 21593
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
This raises another question I'd not thought of: do Mexican illegals here also claim their Mexican citizenry if they suddenly need it in order to regain entry into Mexico? The US does not recognize such dualities. (I know; while Canada says I'll always be a Canuck since I was born there, and haven't formally requested that I give up my citizenship, I'm still, and always will be, a Canadian citizen. Hey; it just might be useful, huh?).

So, are they willing to happily renounce their Mexican background if we let them stay? I'm thinking not. Better to claim and keep all the goodies one can, eh?
They don't have to do anything, they are dual citizenships with Mexico because of their parents' Mexican citizenship. The USA does allow dual citizenship with Mexico - I know that for a fact.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2011, 04:57 AM
 
47,585 posts, read 36,011,377 times
Reputation: 21593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky View Post
I don't understand what learning Spanish as a way of punishing Mexico has to do with anything... Americans are not learning Spanish anyway, I think is the other way around the immigrants learn English and lose Spanish.

Denying school would just create more poverty, instead of ending with moderately educated immigrants you end up with completely uneducated immigrants, does not solve the problem it creates an additional one. What do you do with all the uneducated people? Deport them? Wouldn't they come back again?

Denying citizenship as well complicates things more than what it solves, migration was not necessarily motivated by obtaining citizenship or citizenship for the children they do not yet have, they were looking for money. I'm not saying they do not have children down the line, my point is, the initial motivator is not the citizenship but money.

Removing "benefits" will not stop migration, I'm sure that most illegal immigrants where not even aware of many of these things to begin with and they still crossed the border. Many live in poor conditions, and are still here, there is a belief that they become rich out of welfare, I don't know how they carry all that money and still manage to look poor.

To me the real solution is to stop employment. Remove the possibility to work and then there will be less immigration. Why is the government not penalizing employers who hire illegals? It is easier to target the employers than the immigrants. This is the root of the problem, illegal immigrants are willing to work for less, and employers are attracted to this offering. It seems to me that the one restricting jobs and lowering the average salary, and avoiding or paying less taxes are the US employers. Or do you disagree?

Also, what is it with the negative charged words?

Criminals:
You accuse MOST illegal immigrants of multiple crimes. Are you talking about crossing the border and working illegally? Or of being murderers, rapists, robbers? There is a huge difference. Otherwise most US citizens would be criminals too, right? Or haven't most US citizens violated traffic laws? Smoked pot? Hire illegals?

Anchor baby:
De-humanizes, plain and simple... it implies that all illegal immigrants have children as a way of obtaining citizenship, the baby stops being a child, its a requirement. The term implies that you have the baby as a way of obtaining citizenship which is practically not true, the "anchor" has to be an adult to sponsor their parents +10 years of ban + 2 years of approval, that ends up in 30 years of process, it seems like the anchor had a very long chain.

You mention this has nothing to do with racism, but to me it still sounds there is a level of racism underneath the surface. Otherwise why would you need to use derogatory wording?

What is the percentage of immigrants that are real criminals? Is that percentage different from people living in the same economic conditions? Are you sure they contribute nothing to society, how are you measuring this? What about driving down food prices? What about the ones that do pay taxes and will never claim benefits back? Can you really count the money used for schooling and health as a full loss? How different is the level of dropouts from illegals than to US citizens in similar economic conditions? How much money did corporations "saved" by hiring a cheaper worker?
Identity theft and document fraud are felony crimes - many illegals are all-to-willing to use a stolen social security card obtained from criminal groups controlled by the very violent cartels. In fact the smuggling routes are controlled by the cartels which control all the illegal smuggling routes over the border, freelancing isn't allowed and gets one taken out.

And if we need millions of unskilled laborers to come over the border, then why educate their offspring? That just costs lots of money and keeps us having to keep importing millions more. We could just start growing our own servant and low-paid class instead of having to import it.

On one hand the open-borders crowd wants to insist we need millions of cheap servants and peons to do certain jobs but then they turn around and insist we must pay billions more taxes to educate them so they can have good jobs.

As far as food prices, they haven't gone down. With over 30 million illegals here, bread prices, milk, meat prices are much higher than they were in the 1980s and if anything importing food keeps the prices down. The cost savings of all the ultra cheap taxpayer subsidized labor aren't being passed down to the consumers - just as the cheap housing construction didn't make for low home prices, it took the housing bubble bursting to bring down prices - not the ultra cheap labor.

A large number of illegals are real criminals - nothing at all stops murderers, rapists, thieves and so on from coming over the border - many do to escape justice in their own country. Another queston you might ask is how many illegals have abandoned young children and teenage children back in their own country because American money means more to them than their own families? Many illegals have children who never see them again who will grow up without their parents. Some might get money or might get it for a while, but many are soon forgotten entirely.

Maybe "jackpot baby" would be a better term than anchor baby because the illegal mothers coming here don't give birth in this country because they can afford the much higher cost of living here - and most of them end up happy with the food stamps and WIC coupons, school free lunches, Medicaid, housing assistance and much much more. All expenses paid and nice rewards just for getting here in time to give birth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2011, 08:19 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 1,264,535 times
Reputation: 2334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky View Post
I don't understand what learning Spanish as a way of punishing Mexico has to do with anything... Americans are not learning Spanish anyway, I think is the other way around the immigrants learn English and lose Spanish.
The majority of illegal migrants are from Mexico. Most illegal migrants are from Spanish speaking countries. The expectation when people immigrated here previously was that the migrant would learn English. Today the Mexican lobby argues that Americans should learn Spanish instead. That sort of arrogance annoys many of us.

Quote:
Denying school would just create more poverty, instead of ending with moderately educated immigrants you end up with completely uneducated immigrants, does not solve the problem it creates an additional one. What do you do with all the uneducated people? Deport them? Wouldn't they come back again?
No one's denying them an education. We're just denying them one here. They can get one in their home countries. Americans should not be responsible for the education of illegal migrants. If your children can't get an education here then that provides the perfect incentive for illegal migrants to do what we went them to do: LEAVE!

Quote:
Denying citizenship as well complicates things more than what it solves, migration was not necessarily motivated by obtaining citizenship or citizenship for the children they do not yet have, they were looking for money. I'm not saying they do not have children down the line, my point is, the initial motivator is not the citizenship but money.
Again it's just one more way of pushing them back home where they belong. Americans are not responsible for the needs and desires of illegal migrants.

Quote:
Removing "benefits" will not stop migration, I'm sure that most illegal immigrants where not even aware of many of these things to begin with and they still crossed the border. Many live in poor conditions, and are still here, there is a belief that they become rich out of welfare, I don't know how they carry all that money and still manage to look poor.
Please educate yourself on this topic. You can live in a poor country and still be well aware of what awaits you in American should you give birth. If people are poor they should change the conditions of their lives and lobby for more protections in their own countries instead of coming here without permission. Mexico is not a poor country. Mexico's underclass should not be allowed here because the Mexican oligarchy is too cheap to provide their fellow citizens with a halfway decent society.

Quote:
To me the real solution is to stop employment. Remove the possibility to work and then there will be less immigration. Why is the government not penalizing employers who hire illegals? It is easier to target the employers than the immigrants. This is the root of the problem, illegal immigrants are willing to work for less, and employers are attracted to this offering. It seems to me that the one restricting jobs and lowering the average salary, and avoiding or paying less taxes are the US employers. Or do you disagree?
Both sides are at fault. You will find no one here including myself who defends corporate greed. But the illegal migrant is not some sort of blameless saint.

Quote:
Also, what is it with the negative charged words?

Criminals:
You accuse MOST illegal immigrants of multiple crimes. Are you talking about crossing the border and working illegally? Or of being murderers, rapists, robbers? There is a huge difference. Otherwise most US citizens would be criminals too, right? Or haven't most US citizens violated traffic laws? Smoked pot? Hire illegals?
So as long as they're not murdering they can do whatever they want?

Most illegal migrants violate our hard won employment laws. Only about half pay taxes. Many drive without permission or licensing. Most forge at least some documents.

So we have violations of employment laws, tax evasion, driving without insurance and documentation fraud. How are these not criminal acts?

Quote:
Anchor baby:
De-humanizes, plain and simple... it implies that all illegal immigrants have children as a way of obtaining citizenship, the baby stops being a child, its a requirement. The term implies that you have the baby as a way of obtaining citizenship which is practically not true, the "anchor" has to be an adult to sponsor their parents +10 years of ban + 2 years of approval, that ends up in 30 years of process, it seems like the anchor had a very long chain.
What dehumanizes are people who refuse to obey our laws because they want something. Under present American law an illegal migrant can walk across the border withour permission, give birth and then claim all sorts of benefits as a result. How is that fair? Why should the American taxpayer have to pay for her birthing costs and then support her brat with food stamps, medical care and housing assistance?

Illegal migrants do this all the time.

Quote:
You mention this has nothing to do with racism, but to me it still sounds there is a level of racism underneath the surface. Otherwise why would you need to use derogatory wording?
Calling a criminal a criminal is racism?

Exactly how are we supposed to describe these people?

I know the perferred term by illegal immigrant advocates is hard working saint but that's not even close to the mark.

Quote:
What is the percentage of immigrants that are real criminals? Is that percentage different from people living in the same economic conditions? Are you sure they contribute nothing to society, how are you measuring this? What about driving down food prices? What about the ones that do pay taxes and will never claim benefits back? Can you really count the money used for schooling and health as a full loss? How different is the level of dropouts from illegals than to US citizens in similar economic conditions? How much money did corporations "saved" by hiring a cheaper worker?
As I pointed out above, what exactly is your definition of real criminal? Documentation fraud? Forgery? Violation of employment law? Driving without a license or insurance?

Illegal migration has serious consequences. Illegal migrants contribute to all sorts of problems including school overcrowding, increased health care costs and urban planning failures. They are arrogant jerks who believe that all laws are optional. That's no way to run a civil society.

Most illegal migrants have at best a high school education if that. No, they don't drive down prices. Their minute contributions to food prices are highly offset by the services they take. Americans should not continue to be taxed to provide them.

And some people should educate themselves before posting on this topic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2011, 10:18 AM
 
250 posts, read 299,613 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
No one's denying them an education. We're just denying them one here. They can get one in their home countries. Americans should not be responsible for the education of illegal migrants. If your children can't get an education here then that provides the perfect incentive for illegal migrants to do what we went them to do: LEAVE!
Sure I get the point that the US is not supposed to be responsible for the education of people from another country. The fact is that the problem is already here, how do you act on it? Denying education for the children that are already here is far from the solution, it creates a bigger problem down the line. The solution is to stop migration, you mention this is one of the ways to stop migration, deny education, well my point is that illegal immigrants did not cross the border seeking for education in the first place, so removing that from the equation is not significant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Please educate yourself on this topic. You can live in a poor country and still be well aware of what awaits you in American should you give birth. If people are poor they should change the conditions of their lives and lobby for more protections in their own countries instead of coming here without permission. Mexico is not a poor country. Mexico's underclass should not be allowed here because the Mexican oligarchy is too cheap to provide their fellow citizens with a halfway decent society.
Educate on what? Its a fact that illegal immigrants crossed the border looking for money, many cross as individuals not as families. Yes, many do end up having children here and its part of the problem, but it was not the principal motivator.

And in what part of my message did I imply that Mexico has no responsibility towards its citizens? You are trowing that comment just to

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Both sides are at fault. You will find no one here including myself who defends corporate greed. But the illegal migrant is not some sort of blameless saint.
Yes, both are at fault, but greed in corporations is feeding this problem, the main point of your arguments is blame the immigrant not the employer. Illegal employers are not only part of the problem but a huge/main part of the problem, I'm sure you at least know somebody who hired a maid, nanny, construction worker who was cheaper and was illegally here.

If all the crimes perpetrated by illegal immigrants are so vile, why is it that the main point of the argument against immigration goes against the immigrant and nothing against the employers who accepts the forged documentation. It is very common to see that the arguments are very forgiving against the employers. You decided to acknowledge they are doing wrong but thats it, I'm sure you don't feel the same level of despise/hate you feel against the illegal immigrant. Or do you? Why are those criminals not being persecuted (the employers)?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
So as long as they're not murdering they can do whatever they want?
When did I imply this? You know exactly what I mean. One thing is to work illegally and another one is to murder somebody. I do not deny the fact that illegal activities like forging documents are crimes. However just browse around, everybody uses the term criminal to demonize the immigrant beyond the actual actions he took. One thing is to forgive the actions, and another is to put things in perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
What dehumanizes are people who refuse to obey our laws because they want something. Under present American law an illegal migrant can walk across the border withour permission, give birth and then claim all sorts of benefits as a result. How is that fair? Why should the American taxpayer have to pay for her birthing costs and then support her brat with food stamps, medical care and housing assistance?

Illegal migrants do this all the time.
What you are saying is that they are dehumanizing themselves? Well it definitely does not help calling them names either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
And some people should educate themselves before posting on this topic.
So, you are calling me uneducated on the topic? Why? Because I point out differences in your arguments? Please, I can call you names too. I want to think I'm not posting here to create a stupid fight.

I don't see a point in calling me uneducated other than insult me. Does it add to the discussion? Explain why am I uneducated, how you decided to reach this conclusion from a single post in a forum? Do you know me?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2011, 10:41 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 6,394,663 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote Lebowsy: "Yes, both are at fault, but greed in corporations is feeding this problem, the main point of your arguments is blame the immigrant not the employer. Illegal employers are not only part of the problem but a huge/main part of the problem, I'm sure you at least know somebody who hired a maid, nanny, construction worker who was cheaper and was illegally here".

Perhaps you should go back and read Eleanor's post again. She blamed the employers and the illegal workers equally. So what you are claiming she said just isn't true.

"If all the crimes perpetrated by illegal immigrants are so vile, why is it that the main point of the argument against immigration goes against the immigrant and nothing against the employers who accepts the forged documentation. It is very common to see that the arguments are very forgiving against the employers. You decided to acknowledge they are doing wrong but thats it, I'm sure you don't feel the same level of despise/hate you feel against the illegal immigrant. Or do you? Why are those criminals not being persecuted (the employers)?"

Again with the exaggerations. Where did she use the word "vile"? You are still repeating that Eleanor does not blame the employers at least equally. Go back and read her post for clarity. You are putting words in her mouth by claiming that she doesn't object to the employers hiring illegals just as much as she does the illegal workers. Do you just read what you want to read rather than what is actually said? Employers are prosecuted when found that they "knowingly" hired illegal aliens. Guess you don't want to admit to those cases though, right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2011, 10:53 AM
 
250 posts, read 299,613 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Identity theft and document fraud are felony crimes - many illegals are all-to-willing to use a stolen social security card obtained from criminal groups controlled by the very violent cartels. In fact the smuggling routes are controlled by the cartels which control all the illegal smuggling routes over the border, freelancing isn't allowed and gets one taken out.
I agree that the cartels are a big problem,there is proof that they do control migration routes. But there are two problems here, one is drug violence and the other is illegal employment.

Both problems have to be tackled, and the way to tackle them is not to go after the mass of people, it is going to be an endless fight. Go against illegal employment, fight the correct battle.

As far as the cartels, well, Mexico is suffering a lot from the huge amount of money they make. Mexico needs to continue the fight, and close the drug trade routes, but at the same time the money influx and the arms supply has to stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And if we need millions of unskilled laborers to come over the border, then why educate their offspring? That just costs lots of money and keeps us having to keep importing millions more. We could just start growing our own servant and low-paid class instead of having to import it.
My point is not that the US needs to educate the world or a never ending mass of immigrants. Given the problem in hand, deciding to not educate the children that are already here is going to create a much bigger problem. Trying to stop the influx of more illegal immigration is a better attempt than trying to deny education. If you stop the migration mass they are probably going to school in Mexico instead of the US and that would be fine. Creating millions of uneducated people is not a good strategy, again I'm talking about the ones that are already here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
As far as food prices, they haven't gone down. With over 30 million illegals here, bread prices, milk, meat prices are much higher than they were in the 1980s and if anything importing food keeps the prices down. The cost savings of all the ultra cheap taxpayer subsidized labor aren't being passed down to the consumers - just as the cheap housing construction didn't make for low home prices, it took the housing bubble bursting to bring down prices - not the ultra cheap labor

A large number of illegals are real criminals - nothing at all stops murderers, rapists, thieves and so on from coming over the border - many do to escape justice in their own country. Another queston you might ask is how many illegals have abandoned young children and teenage children back in their own country because American money means more to them than their own families? Many illegals have children who never see them again who will grow up without their parents. Some might get money or might get it for a while, but many are soon forgotten entirely.
I have tried reading multiple papers on how immigrants affect the economy, and it is really hard to come across real factual data. Are you talking out of facts or what you think has happened? Maybe some of it is personal experience, but what matters at the end is the global effect on the country. It is very hard to find actual numbers. Some people claim the immigrants are maintaining the social security, others claim that the taxes lost in welfare/health are more than what the US is gaining. It all depends on what you look and how you look, if you want numbers supporting illegal immigration you will definitely find them as well as the other way around. I find it very odd that the government has its hands crossed and not digging deeper.

However, what I consider to be true is that illegal immigrants are driving down salaries, they are taking jobs that US citizens would do given the right amount of money, and this situation is not helping either side. The illegal immigrant ends up working for low pay, rough conditions and in many cases it separates the family and the US citizen ends up unemployed... Poverty is created in both sides, the only one that wins here is the employer.

I insist, there is a far more forgiving culture towards the employer than the illegal worker. Employers have far more political power, and I believe the attention is being directed against the wrong "enemy".

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
"jackpot baby"
Well I guess it could make sense, but what is the point?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2011, 10:53 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 6,394,663 times
Reputation: 2121
quote=Lebowsky;17706290


"What you are saying is that they are dehumanizing themselves? Well it definitely does not help calling them names."

They may not be dehumanizing themselves (whatever that means) but they definately aren't putting themselves in the best light to Americans by violating our immigration laws. They are all guilty of that. Some or many are guilty of other crimes after they get here. What are we supposed to call lawbreakers? Enough with the PC language to protect lawbreakers. It isn't dehumanizing or racist to call a bank robber a bank robber, is it? I hope you at least get the analogy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2011, 10:59 AM
 
250 posts, read 299,613 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Quote Lebowsy: "Yes, both are at fault, but greed in corporations is feeding this problem, the main point of your arguments is blame the immigrant not the employer. Illegal employers are not only part of the problem but a huge/main part of the problem, I'm sure you at least know somebody who hired a maid, nanny, construction worker who was cheaper and was illegally here".

Perhaps you should go back and read Eleanor's post again. She blamed the employers and the illegal workers equally. So what you are claiming she said just isn't true.

"If all the crimes perpetrated by illegal immigrants are so vile, why is it that the main point of the argument against immigration goes against the immigrant and nothing against the employers who accepts the forged documentation. It is very common to see that the arguments are very forgiving against the employers. You decided to acknowledge they are doing wrong but thats it, I'm sure you don't feel the same level of despise/hate you feel against the illegal immigrant. Or do you? Why are those criminals not being persecuted (the employers)?"

Again with the exaggerations. Where did she use the word "vile"? You are still repeating that Eleanor does not blame the employers at least equally. Go back and read her post for clarity. You are putting words in her mouth by claiming that she doesn't object to the employers hiring illegals just as much as she does the illegal workers. Do you just read what you want to read rather than what is actually said? Employers are prosecuted when found that they "knowingly" hired illegal aliens. Guess you don't want to admit to those cases though, right?
She agreed that the employer is also to blame, but I feel its very noticeable, not only in Eleanor posts but in post regarding illegal immigration in general to see that there is a way bigger blame against the worker than against the employer. Am I wrong?

Why do I think this? Well, because there are multiple derogatory terms referring to illegal immigrants and none against the employers. That to me seems like a proof that the sentiment goes against the people.

I apologize if it seems that I read what I want, but I feel the same way around.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2011, 11:19 AM
 
4,815 posts, read 5,698,707 times
Reputation: 2669
Illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans, COULD do, but they won't. Most 30 year old U.S. citizens will not even APPLY for a $10/hour job as a cook at a restaurant. And what makes people think that if the illegal immigrants didn't fill the position, that somehow the wages would be raised. These companies would MUCH rather higher an American citizen who speaks English, but the problem is that Americans would demand to be payed more money than the average illegal immigrant would ask for.

If people want to stop the flow of illegal immigrants into the country, then we need to start seeing some of our very own citizens get off their asses, stop collecting unemployment, and go work as a cook for $10/hour.

What we need to do in the meantime, is stop demonizing the men and women who come to our country for an opportunity to improve their lives and the lives of their families. They are not here for an easy ride, on the contrary, they come here to work some of the most undesirable jobs we have to offer, and they DON'T complain about it. Perhaps a few U.S. citizens could learn a lesson in hard work and modesty from these people. They come here, save their money, and don't spend it on luxurious things like cars, electronics, etc. They just work hard for their families. Why can't we do it, if they can do it?

And for the record, a large amount of illegal immigrants pay the same taxes as we do, and they will never receive any of that money back in the form of social security, medicaid, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:02 AM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top