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Old 02-05-2011, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,418 posts, read 8,485,011 times
Reputation: 7703

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman91 View Post
All right, sorry about that. I can see why your frustrated, but the whole illegal immigration debate thing is just so complex. I don't which side is better for the country because the debate is controlled by idiots!

Sorry I yelled at you.
Not very complex at all my dear friend.....Illegal is used to describe something that is prohibited or not authorized by law. End of story.

 
Old 02-05-2011, 02:32 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,297,009 times
Reputation: 22194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman91 View Post
Absolutely not! Almost no one on this forum defends illegal immigrants and no is saying that they're better than your parents. People like you irritate me with your self-righteousness!
That's what amnesty and Dream act and all this other stuff they come up with says.

There are people right now who respect our laws and are filing their forms, paying their dues, waiting their turn and the whole bit, trying to do things the right way, the legal way and the gatecrashers are demanding they be handed their citizenship on a silver platter.

As it is right now - the illegals who want legal status could make the decision to return home and start over the right way - they could get in line along with everyone else, they can start at the beginning, understand that the line is long however because so many want to come here.

Instead they break any law that doesn't suit them and then demand to be rewarded for it - and damn those suckers doing things the right way.
 
Old 02-05-2011, 02:37 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,297,009 times
Reputation: 22194
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
In the first place, Kickass, no one cares whether you are offended or not. In America, we can express our opinions openly and we don't care if that offends others.

My ancestors were illegal immigrants. They came here in 1638 and, with the help of their potent European diseases, pushed the Indians off their land. The Indians were not able to stop the Europeans, and look where it got them.

That is why we need to enforce our immigration laws better.

Oh, the reason the illegals are being defended is because some people think they have the same rights as U.S. citizens. We can't change those people's opinions, but we can sure outvote them.
Yes - we can't undo the past - the past is the past. Just like we can't undo slavery or change the fact that people were brought here against their will centuries ago.

What matters is now. And the Indians are a good example of what happens when there are no immigration laws and people arrive with no intention of learning the language or respecting the existing culture.

Assimilation is not a given, invasion and take-over is more the norm.
 
Old 02-05-2011, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,897 posts, read 5,940,445 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
In Puerto Rico, since we're the only developed island in the Caribbean, and the DR is right next door, they come on boats and rafts to make it to the shores of Puerto Rico, where by then they can pop an anchor or 2, or 3 out, and then they won't get deported. After a while, they either stay on the island, looking for work that doesn't exist, and therefore make the crime rate go through the roof with drug trafficking, or they make their way to the New York City area, more specifically the Washington Heights neighborhood of Manhattan.

My father grew up in San Josť, which was a working class neighborhood back in the day, and the illegals were looking for cheap places to live so they started settling in San Josť. Then the crime and the drug dealing dramatically rose years later, and that neighborhood is now a hotbed of criminal activity, same with Barrio Obrero, another Dominican stronghold. Now, these places weren't exactly living la vida loca either, but the crime rate was like half of what it was before they started pouring in by the hundreds, thousands. Most of the Dominicans that live in Puerto Rico, illegal and anchor, occupy the lowest level of the social strata for the most part. And you can tell who they almost all are, they have almost black skin (just like almost all the illegal Mexicans coming in are brown and Native American looking) because in the DR they are descendants of slaves and therefore stayed poor.

In New York there's also tensions amongst the Nuyoricans (that's what we call Puerto Rican migrants who were born and raised in New York, since they've developed their own distinct identity and local dialect separate from Puerto Rico) and the Dominicans as well for similar reasons although I think the reasons are more like rivalry than disdain, because both communities in New York were made of the poor from both sides.
this was a great post ! I learned things I did not know and no knowledge is wasted, right ? There is more stuff going on around the world and in this country, itself, than we can possibly know about.......thx for your insight.
 
Old 02-05-2011, 02:54 PM
 
25,060 posts, read 22,445,157 times
Reputation: 11595
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnieA View Post
this was a great post ! I learned things I did not know and no knowledge is wasted, right ? There is more stuff going on around the world and in this country, itself, than we can possibly know about.......thx for your insight.
You're welcome. And like Armychick said to me as well, we concentrate so much on the US-Mexico border that everyone forgets there's also a leaking seal elsewhere. You seal up the US-Mexico border, and they're still coming in the backdoor. And don't forget, Puerto Rico's illegal alien problems are yours as well. We get federal funds, just like all the states, to fund our Medicaid and other benefits like Section 8, HUD, food stamps, etc. So it's YOUR tax dollars going down the drain to pay for illegals living on a US territory!
 
Old 02-05-2011, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,362,966 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes - we can't undo the past - the past is the past. Just like we can't undo slavery or change the fact that people were brought here against their will centuries ago.

What matters is now. And the Indians are a good example of what happens when there are no immigration laws and people arrive with no intention of learning the language or respecting the existing culture.

Assimilation is not a given, invasion and take-over is more the norm.
From the words of Briar Gates (Liam Neeson) on "Next of Kin":

Quote:
Damnit Man!
It ain't what coulda been done.........

It's what's gotta be done!
 
Old 02-05-2011, 05:53 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,270,900 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
In the first place, Kickass, no one cares whether you are offended or not. In America, we can express our opinions openly and we don't care if that offends others.

My ancestors were illegal immigrants. They came here in 1638 and, with the help of their potent European diseases, pushed the Indians off their land. The Indians were not able to stop the Europeans, and look where it got them.

That is why we need to enforce our immigration laws better.

Oh, the reason the illegals are being defended is because some people think they have the same rights as U.S. citizens. We can't change those people's opinions, but we can sure outvote them.
There were no immigration laws back in 1638.
 
Old 02-05-2011, 06:03 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,127,626 times
Reputation: 958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzelogik View Post
Not very complex at all my dear friend.....Illegal is used to describe something that is prohibited or not authorized by law. End of story.
I dont think the definition is very conplex...illegal...o.k..

Solving the problems of illegal immigration is complex when you have American business, judiiciary, and legislatures are making policies contrary to each other or even one another.

A simplistic definition of "Illegallity" solves no real problem[doesn't even act a real qualifier], only makes ignorqance more blissful.
 
Old 02-05-2011, 06:33 PM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,734,734 times
Reputation: 1979
Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssArmyChick View Post
My dad was born in Brazil. He was the child of farmers. My grandmother had 5 children; 3 daughters and 2 sons.

They were poor and had no education whatsoever. My grandmother could barely write and read up until the day she passed away.

My dad and his siblings ( minus one of my aunts ) didn't want the same future for themselves.

So they immigrated LEGALLY to the US and Canada.

Now please enlighten me on why those who choose to come here illegally are being defended so fervently?

Are you trying to say they are better than my family who chose to abide by the law?!
No, they absolutely are not 'better' than your family.

Most of us who defend those who are here illegally do so for many reasons, some of which are:

* The human aspect of abuse. What we have in many cases is a modern day type of slavery. Many corporate companies purposefully recruit and hire undocumented workers for the sake of the bottom line. The language barrier works in the favor of the corporation, not the illegal worker; the illegal status works in the favor of the corporation, not the illegal worker. Some companies have gone as far as holding them in hideous living conditions and against their will and by fear.
Virtual Slave Labor for Indian Workers at Oklahoma Pickle Plant

Meatpacking industry has a long history of reliance on immigrant laborer | Greeley Tribune

* The United State's immigration policies have not changed with the times. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I don't understand why it takes years and years and thousands and thousands of dollars to become a naturalized citizen. Nor do I understand why the US Immigration and Naturalization seem to not be able to keep track of those who come here legally, but then stay after their Visas expire.

* I do not grasp the human who has nothing but contempt in their heart for a child who was brought here as a baby or child, raised here, excelled in American schools, but want to 'ship them back'. To me, that's the description of an atrocious excuse for a human being. They are American. Let the Dream Act kids be who they are: American.

* Many of us who defend the 'illegals' do so because we are witnessing xenophobia and outright hatred in many cases that is disguised behind a moniker of, "but, but, my folks came here legally".

* NAFTA pushed many, many subsistence farmers off of their lands. Also, American corporate farms moved into Mexico and took over the lands of those subsistence farmers. Those peasants' may not be your problem, but if you turn your head when the weak are abused by the rich and powerful then you too are guilty.

* It's my opinion that those who are so adamantly against illegal workers should put their money where their mouth is. Stop supporting those corporations who actively recruit and hire them!!!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one. Do a little research. Iowa Beef, Con-Agra (and they make many, many processed food products) Tyson, Simmons and Pilgrims Pride Chicken, Smithville Farms. And that's just the food industry! How can anyone ***** about the horrible illegals when they buy the products from corporations that keep the illegals here?????

* My spiritual beliefs trend toward Eastern Buddhist philosophy. I do believe in karma. Being Native American and knowing the non-White version of how American history and government policy committed genocide, cultural genocide, lies, theft, trickery and outright taking Native children to indoctrinate them into little Christians makes me tend to believe that what is happening is a karmic price for those atrocities in the U.S. history. Maybe, maybe not, but I do know that what goes up will come down. that's just physics.

Illegal immigration is a complex problem. It is not and will never be as simple as 'round them all up and ship them out.'

The **** politicians pander to the xenophobes, but will do nothing for you.

The Sun Magazine | Without A Country

You asked for an opinion, so I gave mine, but I'll be surprised if you actually read the links. You should, because there is good information in those links. They are minus the partisan hyperbole.
 
Old 02-05-2011, 06:35 PM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,734,734 times
Reputation: 1979
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
There were no immigration laws back in 1638.
I get so sick of hearing this bcrap. Ask my tribe and they will tell you differently. Don't just make chit up and pull it out of your nose.
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