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Old 02-06-2011, 03:51 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,090,306 times
Reputation: 957

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It is mine and every other law abiding American's concern also. Why allow current employees to remain on the job if they are here illegally and only weed out new hires?
thanks for stating the obvious...but that still didint answer her concern...E-verify is not the concern...its how the current employees are checked.

as I said before, E-verify doesntr solve this problem. Im sure you'll come up with more fantastic numbers, but that STILL doesnt address her concerns or that of everyother lawbiding citizen.
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:05 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,160,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
thanks for stating the obvious...but that still didint answer her concern...E-verify is not the concern...its how the current employees are checked.

as I said before, E-verify doesntr solve this problem. Im sure you'll come up with more fantastic numbers, but that STILL doesnt address her concerns or that of everyother lawbiding citizen.

E-verify if used to check on current employees and future hires will solve a lot of our illegal immigration problems.
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:10 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,160,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
Your question has nothing to do with E-verify since it is entirely voluntary (with few exceptions). Employers do not "allow current employees [to remain on the job] if they are here illegally." That would be an admission of knowingly violating federal law.

If you meant to ask why E-verify is limited to new hires only, here's why:

E-verify can only be used after form I9 is completed and the employee has accepted a job. Employer must use E-verify within three days of hiring the employee. There you have the 'rules' per Homeland Security.

But I'm sure those of you who "understand" already knew this, so I won't have to cite the links.

Your idea that all businesses should be forced to use E-verify is peculiar for someone who touts smaller government and less Federal interference in states' issues.
If e-verify is mandated in every workplace the rules for checking current and new hires can be changed also. Even the rules for hiring first and checking later can be changed and I am all for that.

What does using e-verify have to do with wanting smaller government? This isn't a state issue either. The laws against hiring illegal aliens is a federal issue.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:16 PM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,036,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
What does using e-verify have to do with wanting smaller government? This isn't a state issue either. The laws against hiring illegal aliens is a federal issue.
Not just using E-verify, but forcing employers to use it.

Who's going to make sure all of the millions of employers in this country are complying if E-verify becomes mandatory? That would mean thousands of Fed. employees who would have to be hired in order to check the work status of millions of people. It's completely unfeasible, financially and logistically.

It would be a huge burden on the larger companies to hire yet more people to ensure that E-verity is complied with. And even more Federal employees would be needed to investigate every single employee's case, should it be discovered that an employer is not complying. Then there's the cost and man power (federal prosecutors, records keepers, secretaries, court reporters, judges, etc.) needed to prosecute the business offenders.

Yes, the laws against hiring illegal aliens is a federal issue. So is illegal immigration itself. That's why the Justice Department is taking Arizona to court, for usurping their authority, basically.

It seems contradictory to me that you think the Federal government should stay out of Arizona's business re illegals, yet think the Feds should force all employers to use E-verify. The less power the Feds have over the states, the better. I don't see the point in willingly giving even more to them.

I'm all for voluntary compliance. If the Feds catch the offenders who knowingly hire illegals, then prosecute them.

You may want to check on the Homeland Security website about E-verify. Over the years, employer use of E-verify has increased consistently, and continues to do so. It's working as it is, but it will never be perfect.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:20 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,160,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
Not just using E-verify, but forcing employers to use it.

Who's going to make sure all of the millions of employers in this country are complying if E-verify becomes mandatory? That would mean thousands of Fed. employees who would have to be hired in order to check the work status of millions of people. It's completely unfeasible, financially and logistically.

It would be a huge burden on the larger companies to hire yet more people to ensure that E-verity is complied with. And even more Federal employees would be needed to investigate every single employee's case, should it be discovered that an employer is not complying. Then there's the cost and man power (federal prosecutors, records keepers, secretaries, court reporters, judges, etc.) needed to prosecute the business offenders.

Yes, the laws against hiring illegal aliens is a federal issue. So is illegal immigration itself. That's why the Justice Department is taking Arizona to court, for usurping their authority, basically.

It seems contradictory to me that you think the Federal government should stay out of Arizona's business re illegals, yet think the Feds should force all employers to use E-verify. The less power the Feds have over the states, the better. I don't see the point in willingly giving even more to them.

I'm all for voluntary compliance. If the Feds catch the offenders who knowingly hire illegals, then prosecute them.

You may want to check on the Homeland Security website about E-verify. Over the years, employer use of E-verify has increased consistently, and continues to do so. It's working as it is, but it will never be perfect.
You have no proof whatsover that making e-verify manditory across the nation would require a lot of manpower and expense to enforce. The sympathizers for illegals always have a million excuses against immigration enforcement. No expense should be spared to enforce any of our laws IMO. No one has the expectation that e-verify will ever work perfectly however it is being improved on more and more. Is anything in life perfect? It really gets me when the pro-illegals complain that we don't want to go after the employers and when we do with things like e-verfiy they complain it isn't "perfect" so it should be tossed out. Their agenda is quite clear and it is because by implementing e-verify their precious illegals will be caught or not be able to get a job.

The states legally have the right to protect their borders if our federal government doesn't do so.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:28 PM
 
1,472 posts, read 1,908,302 times
Reputation: 1128
Tell me this I've seen employees come in change their name once they became Legal.Why are they not let go for lying on their application?

brushrunner
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:28 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,897,362 times
Reputation: 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
Why are employers not legally allowed to vet current employees through the E-verify system if they institute it for new hires?

It seems to me this is one GIGANTIC loophole, the likes of which I'm sure companies like Tyson with their much touted and heralded new "partnership with immigration authorities" are slipping through.

All it means is that from now on new hires will be verified, but any illegals currently employed can continue being employed with no fear of an ICE raid/silent audit now their company is "in compliance".

This makes ZERO sense to me, so if you can, please explain the reasoning.
Have to keep those future Democrat voters in the country so they can be granted amnesty.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:18 AM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,036,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You have no proof whatsover that making e-verify manditory across the nation would require a lot of manpower and expense to enforce.
That's true, because we all know people work for free! No additional taxes! No additional manpower needed to implement your favored Federal mandates! You just go on believing that you can rob Peter to pay Paul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The sympathizers for illegals always have a million excuses against immigration enforcement.
How is this usual mantra of your's relevant to this convesation? It isn't. Just thought you'd add a little fuel to the fire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No one has the expectation that e-verify will ever work perfectly however it is being improved on more and more. Is anything in life perfect?
Glad you agree with me and acknowledge what I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It really gets me when the pro-illegals complain that we don't want to go after the employers and when we do with things like e-verfiy they complain it isn't "perfect" so it should be tossed out. Their agenda is quite clear and it is because by implementing e-verify their precious illegals will be caught or not be able to get a job.
This is called a mantra. Repeat it often enough so that you can convince yourself. No where in this thread has anyone suggested any such thing. This is a similar tactic that RWNJs use; completely and deliberately twist and lie about what others have said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The states legally have the right to protect their borders if our federal government doesn't do so.
Classic. On one hand you think the Feds should force individual states and private employers to use E-verify. You see nothing wrong with that because it would potentially (remember, E-verify isn't "perfect") suit your agenda. On the other hand, you think states should be able to protect their borders if the Feds can't or don't. i.e., enforce their own "version" of Federal law. Abide by one Federal mandate or law, ignore the other.

Like with you and your compatriots' very odd interpretation of parts of the United States Constitution, you can not pick and choose which laws you will comply with and which you refuse to comply with.

I've already addressed these issues in previous posts in this thread. Yet you continue to twist my words into whatever misrepresentation it is you want to 'believe.' It's clear what your agenda is.

Go right ahead and give the Feds even more authority than they have. That's just what we need.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:30 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,160,108 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
That's true, because we all know people work for free! No additional taxes! No additional manpower needed to implement your favored Federal mandates! You just go on believing that you can rob Peter to pay Paul.

How is this usual mantra of your's relevant to this convesation? It isn't. Just thought you'd add a little fuel to the fire?
Glad you agree with me and acknowledge what I said.
This is called a mantra. Repeat it often enough so that you can convince yourself. No where in this thread has anyone suggested any such thing. This is a similar tactic that RWNJs use; completely and deliberately twist and lie about what others have said.
Classic. On one hand you think the Feds should force individual states and private employers to use E-verify. You see nothing wrong with that because it would potentially (remember, E-verify isn't "perfect") suit your agenda. On the other hand, you think states should be able to protect their borders if the Feds can't or don't. i.e., enforce their own "version" of Federal law. Abide by one Federal mandate or law, ignore the other.

Like with you and your compatriots' very odd interpretation of parts of the United States Constitution, you can not pick and choose which laws you will comply with and which you refuse to comply with.

I've already addressed these issues in previous posts in this thread. Yet you continue to twist my words into whatever misrepresentation it is you want to 'believe.' It's clear what your agenda is.

Go right ahead and give the Feds even more authority than they have. That's just what we need.
Perhaps we should just stop enforcing any of our laws because afterall it costs money?

Visit some of the pro-illegals sites and you will see how the truth is twisted and how they lie all the time. Pot, kettle, black.

You are mixing apples with oranges here comparing the mandate usage of e-verify to states trying to protect their own borders. They are two totally different things.

Which laws in the Constitution are we not complying with? Wanting change is not ignoring laws or not complying with them until or if they are changed. Unlike the illegal alien advocates who think it ok for illegals to come here and granted stay before any so-called immigration reform has happened.

I haven't twisted any of your words and we certainly DO know what your agenda is.

I am for both the feds and the states enforcing all of our laws to the fullest extent. I think they should cooperate with each other.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: AL
2,477 posts, read 2,204,323 times
Reputation: 1007
Real simple....I believe big business are in bed with the no-borders groups.
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