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Old 02-08-2011, 07:45 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 879,441 times
Reputation: 227

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2ten View Post
Just a thought....invisible doesn't equal meaningless.
Do you own property? real estate? Your property lines are just as invisible. Are you ok with a few hundred trespassers setting up housekeeping on your land? At your expense?
I think your logic is fallacious. Folks with decent morals don't trespass.
You have made a comparison between national boundaries and property boundaries. In order to demonstrate that either is morally legitimate, you will need to demonstrate the morally legitimate nature of their acquisition. In the case of national boundaries, it is a historical reality that the Americas were settled through genocidal violence against the indigenous population, and so in the deontological sense, moral legitimacy does not exist, since property rights were violated. There are other moral perspectives; I personally favor the consequentialist/utilitarian approach, in which the morality of acts are determined by their consequences. You would then have to demonstrate immoral/unethical consequences from the act of border crossing as exist in cases of assault, rape, or murder, for example, in order to demonstrate that it is a crime of moral turpitude as opposed to a victimless crime.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:53 PM
 
166 posts, read 212,715 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
You have made a comparison between national boundaries and property boundaries. In order to demonstrate that either is morally legitimate, you will need to demonstrate the morally legitimate nature of their acquisition. In the case of national boundaries, it is a historical reality that the Americas were settled through genocidal violence against the indigenous population, and so in the deontological sense, moral legitimacy does not exist, since property rights were violated. There are other moral perspectives; I personally favor the consequentialist/utilitarian approach, in which the morality of acts are determined by their consequences. You would then have to demonstrate immoral/unethical consequences from the act of border crossing as exist in cases of assault, rape, or murder, for example, in order to demonstrate that it is a crime of moral turpitude as opposed to a victimless crime.
You live in the USA.....by your logic, your own property was aquired by immoral means. So as a country we're guilty, but you are perfectly entitled to your personal cut of the bounty. Why exactly?
I personally favor the don't break the law approach.
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:46 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,176,297 times
Reputation: 2130
Here we go again with the pro-illegals using a past hundreds of years ago to justify illegal immigration into our country today. It matters not to them that many American's ancestors didn't even come here till well after any so-called genocide of the natives or that many Americans are not even white Europeans and that most of us were born here.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:56 AM
 
1,150 posts, read 993,172 times
Reputation: 369
It's not just Mexicans though. I watched a program the other night about women in Russia being hired as prostitutes to work in the US. First they're flown to Holland to learn the trade, since prostitution is legal there. Next they fly to Mexico, and are taught a bit of US culture, and provided with American style clothes. Then they're smuggled by boat, usually at night, onto a US beach.

Many people from the Middle East, and Asia come across the southern border too. From the Middle East they fly to Cuba, then to Mexico. I know that at least one ship filled with several hundred illegal Chinese immigrants was found offshore from Southern California, headed for Mexico. So all you open border advocates consider this---You have no idea who's entering this country when they don't go through the legal process.
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:11 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 18,577,702 times
Reputation: 9494
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2ten View Post
The problem is not that we don't accept enough legal immigrants. The problem is that illegals and their supporters will never accept any number as 'enough'.
One is too many.
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,241,021 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
Coastal (and border) security would not be an issue if there was not a demand for covert cross points. That is an artificial demand manufactured by the denial of entry to aspiring migrants at authorized border checkpoints. Ergo, when that artificial constraint is removed, the demand for covert cross points will decline, and will primarily exist among people involved in illicit activities, such as contraband smugglers.
Its making harder for illegals to get to the USA. Which is a good thing.
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:58 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,957 posts, read 30,201,927 times
Reputation: 17764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
There are thousands of dollars exchanged for the service of wading through the ocean around a coastal fence? I don't think you'd make a very good coyote.

Correct, nor would I want to. You seem to be very up on this subject.


My family members would probably have their Mescalero tribal ID's on them, and wouldn't be subject to deportation. I'd try to explain to you, but probably only New Mexican Apaches could understand.

You'd probably be too high on peyote from your latest pow wow ( ) in LA (the capital of 100% Mescaleros) to worry about picking up anyone coming illegally. I'll wager it looks more like a bunch of nerds playing air guitar.


This is a pointless comparison because theft is a crime of moral turpitude. Unless you can demonstrate that wading through the water or walking across one side of an invisible line in the dirt to the other is a crime of moral turpitude, your comparison is fallacious.
If you don't like the laws here buddy feel free to move South. By the way, they probably won't treat you very well in Mexico but don't let that stop you.
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:02 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,957 posts, read 30,201,927 times
Reputation: 17764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
You have made a comparison between national boundaries and property boundaries. In order to demonstrate that either is morally legitimate, you will need to demonstrate the morally legitimate nature of their acquisition. In the case of national boundaries, it is a historical reality that the Americas were settled through genocidal violence against the indigenous population, and so in the deontological sense, moral legitimacy does not exist, since property rights were violated. There are other moral perspectives; I personally favor the consequentialist/utilitarian approach, in which the morality of acts are determined by their consequences. You would then have to demonstrate immoral/unethical consequences from the act of border crossing as exist in cases of assault, rape, or murder, for example, in order to demonstrate that it is a crime of moral turpitude as opposed to a victimless crime.
I don't think this individual has to "demonstrate" anything. If you think you can trump our laws or come up with your own judicial system then feel free to "demonstrate" it in front of LE. If you don't mind can I ask that someone U-tube it for us.
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