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Old 02-12-2011, 05:30 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Actually we saw all sorts of flow of Mexicans across the border in the 30s, 40s and 50s sponsored by the USofA. We recruited and damn near kidnapped Mexicans during that period. And is some cases we paid Social Security type taxes to Mexican officials that never made it back to the workers.

And all the welfare state stuff is true. That is why we should never have allowed them to penetrate the US. But we did. Now what. It does not go away because we don't like it.
That flow was stopped. That flow should be stopped again. That flow should most certainly be stopped again. The flow should most certainly not be subsidized in the form of benefits like free health care for Mexicans.

They even have universal health care:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/wo...=mexico&st=cse

Why should we foot the bills for a single Mexican national when they can get care at home? If it's less then perfect then then let them lobby THEIR legislators and leave the Joe Blow taxpayer out of it.

We have the right to control our borders. We most certainly have the right to deny people access to tax dollars just because they are foreign nationals who break our laws.
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:44 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Who's "we"? Please don't include law abiding Americans for the rule of law in with the culprits who caused this mess. Nor are "we" going to stand for illegal aliens to be rewarded with legalization because of the culprits who were responsible for this mess.
"We" in this context is the USofA. The government that we elect. It sponsored the import of Mexican labor to the US for decades. The USofA was the primary driver of an open border so that US border agriculture could take advantage of it. When Eishenhower finally cracked down he really was after the American sponsors rather than the Mexicans...and most of that purported affair was pure propaganda.

And "We" are the ones who will suffer if it is not fixed. Which appears the likely outcome.
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:59 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
"We" in this context is the USofA. The government that we elect. It sponsored the import of Mexican labor to the US for decades. The USofA was the primary driver of an open border so that US border agriculture could take advantage of it. When Eishenhower finally cracked down he really was after the American sponsors rather than the Mexicans...and most of that purported affair was pure propaganda.

And "We" are the ones who will suffer if it is not fixed. Which appears the likely outcome.
The politicians we elect don't necessarily keep their promises when we elect them. Many of them lie and say one thing before being elected and do another after being elected. We are doing our best to kick these bums out of office. In the meantime, law abiding Americans are not going to pay for their mistakes. Yes, "we" will be the ones who will suffer if it is not fixed and the "fix" for the American people isn't to legalized millions of lawbreaking, illegal aliens.
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Old 02-12-2011, 06:05 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The politicians we elect don't necessarily keep their promises when we elect them. Many of them lie and say one thing before being elected and do another after being elected. We are doing our best to kick these bums out of office. In the meantime, law abiding Americans are not going to pay for their mistakes. Yes, "we" will be the ones who will suffer if it is not fixed and the "fix" for the American people isn't to legalized millions of lawbreaking, illegal aliens.
The other fix is to spend billions and billions and years and years trying to chase the illegals out. And even that may not work.

I don't see anyone willing to spend the billions and billions...

So that says we ain't gonna fix it and it will run along much as it is. And you folk will still be whining here over how awful it is ten years from now.
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Old 02-12-2011, 09:00 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
The other fix is to spend billions and billions and years and years trying to chase the illegals out. And even that may not work.

I don't see anyone willing to spend the billions and billions...

So that says we ain't gonna fix it and it will run along much as it is. And you folk will still be whining here over how awful it is ten years from now.

For the umpteenth time if we take away the incentives for them to remain here or for more to come here many will leave voluntarily and the expense would be minimal. Most will not stay in some "gray" market hoping not to be detected.

We spent billions in the Iraq war. Why wouldn't we spend the necessary dollars to rid our country of illegal aliens and secure our own border? In spite of what you believe illegals are a net loss to our country, not a net benefit. Legalizing them would not change that and in fact would just makes things worse in the future.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:51 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
For the umpteenth time if we take away the incentives for them to remain here or for more to come here many will leave voluntarily and the expense would be minimal. Most will not stay in some "gray" market hoping not to be detected.

We spent billions in the Iraq war. Why wouldn't we spend the necessary dollars to rid our country of illegal aliens and secure our own border? In spite of what you believe illegals are a net loss to our country, not a net benefit. Legalizing them would not change that and in fact would just makes things worse in the future.
And for the umpteenth time around half are already gray.

You want to spend a a few tens of billions of dollars to fix the illegal problem propose it. And expect to be laughed out of town.

I don't "believe" anything other than there is likely no way to diskplace the well entrenched illegals.

Just think about the Repub right proposing 10 billion to just cut the number of illegals here...think about it...can you see how that is going to sell...
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Old 02-13-2011, 06:18 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
And for the umpteenth time around half are already gray.

You want to spend a a few tens of billions of dollars to fix the illegal problem propose it. And expect to be laughed out of town.

I don't "believe" anything other than there is likely no way to diskplace the well entrenched illegals.

Just think about the Repub right proposing 10 billion to just cut the number of illegals here...think about it...can you see how that is going to sell...
Why do you keep repeating that we would have to spend billions to rid our country of illegals when we have all told you over and over that our costs would be minimal with self-deportations?

There are steps being taken as we speak to remove incentives for them to remain here or to continue to keep coming here. It will be an uphill battle but I believe we are going to see this happen in the coming years. Many can't survive with just a low paying job. They depend on the other benefits to suppliment their income if they even have a job.

As for those who are being paid under the table (and I haven't seen any source for percentages on that) if e-verify is implemented across the board that will eliminate much of the gray market area also. I think at this point most Americans would be happy even with a 50% reduction of illegal aliens in our country but I believe the number would be much higher than that.
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Old 02-13-2011, 06:38 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,085,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Too many illegals are abusing our emergency rooms for non-emergency medical treatment. While hospitals, taxpayers, and the insured would continue to bear the burden for nonpayment of illegals’ bills, perhaps this would at least minimize the costs. We can’t be the healthcare provider for the world. However, I doubt this will pass.


Hospital Version Of SB 1070 Proposed - Phoenix News Story - KPHO Phoenix
Quote:
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) is a U.S.Act of Congress passed in 1986[Pres. R. Reagan's term] as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay.


There is nothing in the Constitution that provides for anyone having Federally funded medical care. Repeal the Law.

But-and until that is done...Arizona can not write a law which supersedes federal law. Just a SB1070 is tied up in the courts, so would be this proposed law.
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Old 02-13-2011, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
You folks just don't understand the rules.

The Feds will never go after anyone who is sick or potentially so. They simple refuse. The Feds don't want the potential liabiliity for the care of a sick illegal...and while sick they may well not be deportable.

After a number of these chase and crash incidents the Feds only arrest those who are uninjured.
Quote:
They leave the injured to the locals...and they will never arrest anyone who is badly or permanently damaged
.

So the last people the Feds are going to accept is those going to the ER.
Is that so?

Undocumented quadriplegic returned to Mexico from Chicago area - chicagotribune.com
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Old 02-13-2011, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Again, you are ignoring the fact that the Feds are U.S. taxpayers, and we should not bear this burden. We should treat bona fide emergencies, and then send them to ICE. If they can’t pay for non-emergency treatment, they shouldn’t receive it. We have enough problems providing for our own uninsured. Perhaps if life were a little less pleasant they will be forced to return home.
Talking to someone uneffected by illegal immigration is like talking to a illegal as they cross the border....no comprende'.
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