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Old 02-14-2011, 12:14 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,398,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
We do not need to “regularize” their status. We simply need to enforce our laws. As for taxes, even with a valid SSN, they would continue to provide bogus info because they have no respect for our country. Do you actually believe the only reason they aren’t paying their bills is because they lack a SSN? Please.

Again, fraud and deception is a staple of the illegal alien lifestyle. They’re accustomed to circumventing laws and fleecing taxpayers. Legalization won’t change that. It’s far too ingrained.
Regularizing their status would be a huge disaster for everyone but the illegal migrant. Most illegal aliens do not have the education level to get a decent job and earn much money. Rather than actually paying into the system they would qualify for the earned income tax credit and thus pay no taxes at all.

This whole argument is preposterous. American laws are not supposed to be designed to make life easy and pleasant for low skilled, law breaking migrants largely from a single ethnic group. The argument that they're here already and we should do what we can to make the best of it does nothing but reward line skippers, punish legal immigrants and steal money from the American tax payer.

 
Old 02-14-2011, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,864,905 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Regularizing their status would be a huge disaster for everyone but the illegal migrant. Most illegal aliens do not have the education level to get a decent job and earn much money. Rather than actually paying into the system they would qualify for the earned income tax credit and thus pay no taxes at all.

This whole argument is preposterous. American laws are not supposed to be designed to make life easy and pleasant for low skilled, law breaking migrants largely from a single ethnic group. The argument that they're here already and we should do what we can to make the best of it does nothing but reward line skippers, punish legal immigrants and steal money from the American tax payer.
I have never understood how anyone could seriously believe that rewarding criminal behavior is a viable solution for our illegal immigration problem. It defies any semblance of logic.
 
Old 02-14-2011, 01:09 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,615,036 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
And they should be prosecuted for it.
But they are not and are unlikely to be.

Quote:
In other words give illegal migrants citizenship because otherwise they should have to the right to steal American tax dollars.

NO. NO. NO.

No, you can't come here without permission. No, you can't work without permission. No you can't drive without a license. No, you can't walk away from your medical bills and lie to hospital personnel.
You continue to argue that which is cannot be. iT STILL IS...


Quote:
Why do you apparently believe that the only laws we should have or enforce are those specifically designed to give benefits to illegal aliens? The easy fix is clear: no anchor babies. No benefits for illegal migrants. No coming here unless you do so legally. Yes, you will be prosecuted if you drive without a license, work without papers, fail to pay your taxes, skip out on medical bills.
You continue with the tooth fairy solutions. No you are not going to find a new set of laws under your pillow. Nor a new set of enforcement resources to fix what you dislike. Reality must be dealt with.


Quote:
We prosecute Americans for these offenses every single day of the year. Why the hell are we supposed to let illegal migrants get away them?
Most of your complaints are not prosecutable and would not be prosecuted against anyone. Working off the books for instance is virtually never prosecuted...though it may be enforced civilly. Similar on taxes etc.

Quote:
Ugh. I have a $322 medical bill right now because some idiot doctor told me he was in network when he wasn't. Can I just send the bill for Mexicans to pay? Why not? If I'm supposed to pay their medical bills why can't they at least chip in for mine? Fair is fair, right?
Tale tje incorrect MD to small claims court.

Quote:
The rational answer to who pays for the medical bills of illegal migrants is illegal migrants. NOT ME! To heck with anyone who argues otherwise. My grandparents would have been thrown out as a public charge if they pulled this stunt. Why the heck should the rules be different for anyone else, let alone someone who isn't even here legally?
The indigent get free care. Illegals are often indigent. Again whining about the cruelty of it all changes nothing. And you will pay your share...
 
Old 02-14-2011, 01:18 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,615,036 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I have never understood how anyone could seriously believe that rewarding criminal behavior is a viable solution for our illegal immigration problem. It defies any semblance of logic.
Because there is no other plausible remedy. That simple. If make a serious driving error and badly damage someone you can't make them whole because you don't want them to be hurt. You can't fix their injury. You may compensate them for it but you can't make it go away.

That is where we are. We had a socio-economic car wreck where we allowed millions of economic immigrants to enter this country. Should never have happened. But it is not practically reversible.

And you folk seem unable to understand that. There is no will and perhaps no way to reverse what has happened. Even an attempt to fix it by enforcement would cost billions and billions and take many years...and may not work.

If we do nothing it gets worse.

So what option is there?
 
Old 02-14-2011, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,864,905 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Because there is no other plausible remedy. That simple. If make a serious driving error and badly damage someone you can't make them whole because you don't want them to be hurt. You can't fix their injury. You may compensate them for it but you can't make it go away.

That is where we are. We had a socio-economic car wreck where we allowed millions of economic immigrants to enter this country. Should never have happened. But it is not practically reversible.

And you folk seem unable to understand that. There is no will and perhaps no way to reverse what has happened. Even an attempt to fix it by enforcement would cost billions and billions and take many years...and may not work.

If we do nothing it gets worse.

So what option is there?
How many times must we mention the enforcement of our laws? If our laws were enforced, we wouldn’t have an illegal immigration problem, because they wouldn’t be able to work, period. No employer would dare hire them, for fear of stiff penalties and jail sentences. If they can’t work ANYWHERE in this country, why would they remain?

Clearly, you have no interest in anything other than amnesty; which, by the way, has proven to be a colossal failure. The last mass amnesty has resulted in tenfold the previous number of illegals. If we grant another amnesty, we can only expect more illegal immigration, not less. How will that solve our problems?

You have still not explained how we will fund another amnesty, or how we will enforce the new laws, yet lack the resources or will to enforce our current. Remember, we were promised in 1986 that our laws would be enforced, and our borders would be secured. We all know how well that worked.
 
Old 02-14-2011, 01:57 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,398,149 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
But they are not and are unlikely to be.



You continue to argue that which is cannot be. iT STILL IS...




You continue with the tooth fairy solutions. No you are not going to find a new set of laws under your pillow. Nor a new set of enforcement resources to fix what you dislike. Reality must be dealt with.




Most of your complaints are not prosecutable and would not be prosecuted against anyone. Working off the books for instance is virtually never prosecuted...though it may be enforced civilly. Similar on taxes etc.



Tale tje incorrect MD to small claims court.



The indigent get free care. Illegals are often indigent. Again whining about the cruelty of it all changes nothing. And you will pay your share...
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Because there is no other plausible remedy. That simple. If make a serious driving error and badly damage someone you can't make them whole because you don't want them to be hurt. You can't fix their injury. You may compensate them for it but you can't make it go away.

That is where we are. We had a socio-economic car wreck where we allowed millions of economic immigrants to enter this country. Should never have happened. But it is not practically reversible.

And you folk seem unable to understand that. There is no will and perhaps no way to reverse what has happened. Even an attempt to fix it by enforcement would cost billions and billions and take many years...and may not work.

If we do nothing it gets worse.

So what option is there?
Enforce our laws.

Why is that not an option?

You basically admit that they are costing us billions already. Why isn't it practically reversable to tell illegal immigrants that they can't get welfare, can't get free schooling for their children, can't break our employment laws, can't demand medical services they don't pay for, can't demand interpreters and can't drive without a license?

We slammed the door shut in the 1920's. Why on earth can't we do again?

Your "practical solution" is to basically say to millions of unskilled migrants who broke our laws that they can get citizenship and huge benefits as a result of their law breaking. All that does is provide the world's biggest incentive for even more people with a third grade education and five children to come here and wait for another amnesty.

That's not a solution. That's surrender.
 
Old 02-14-2011, 02:11 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,615,036 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Enforce our laws.

Why is that not an option?
It would cost a huge amount of money take a very long time and may not work.

But go ahead. Get your legislators to propose it. See how far it gets.

The country as a whole is simply not willing to undertake that venture.

Quote:
You basically admit that they are costing us billions already. Why isn't it practically reversable to tell illegal immigrants that they can't get welfare, can't get free schooling for their children, can't break our employment laws, can't demand medical services they don't pay for, can't demand interpreters and can't drive without a license?
I have never agreed that they cost us much money at all. To the best I can find they cost very little if anything. The costs of the illegals lie pretty much in the minds of the antis...not in any facts. That is why they always incorrectly include the cost of US born children. There are no other big expenses


Quote:
We slammed the door shut in the 1920's. Why on earth can't we do again?
Who told you that? The USofA heavily encouraged Mexican migration through the 50s.

Quote:
Your "pratical solution" is to basically say to millions of unskilled migrants who broke our laws that they can get citizenship and huge benefits as a result of their law breaking. All that does is provide the world's biggest incentive for even more people with a third grade education and five children to come here and wait for another amnesty.

That's not a solution. That's surrender.
And you apparently feel that doing nothing which leads to the worst case outcome is better?

And it is surrender...to the inevitable rather than making it worse.
 
Old 02-14-2011, 02:51 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,398,149 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
It would cost a huge amount of money take a very long time and may not work.
As opposed to what we have right now? You freely admit that's costing us lots of money.

Quote:
But go ahead. Get your legislators to propose it. See how far it gets.

The country as a whole is simply not willing to undertake that venture.
Go ahead and continue to argue for medicaid for illegal migrants. Campaign on it and see how far you get. The American public does not want illegal migrants here. We certainly don't want to subsidize them.

Quote:
I have never agreed that they cost us much money at all. To the best I can find they cost very little if anything. The costs of the illegals lie pretty much in the minds of the antis...not in any facts. That is why they always incorrectly include the cost of US born children. There are no other big expenses
You've repeatedly asserted that they walk away from medical bills in this thread and cost hospitals lots of money. You're contradicting yourself here.

Illegals cost us money in all sorts of ways. They demand we educate their children. They work off the books. They either drive without a license and get into accidents or overcrowd public transportation systems. They run up medical bills they can't pay for and skip out on the bills thus inflating health care costs. They bring drugs and crime here further increasing law enforcement costs. They lower wages for our own unskilled citizens.

The notion that a group of people with poor educational skills who largely do not speak English and have lots of children is somehow a net benefit to the average American is a delusion born solely by the amnesty crowd and not borne out in facts.

Quote:
Who told you that? The USofA heavily encouraged Mexican migration through the 50s.
I am writing about the history of immigration laws. The US did not encourage massive permanent Mexican immigration at any point in time. We still don't and should not.

Quote:
And you apparently feel that doing nothing which leads to the worst case outcome is better?

And it is surrender...to the inevitable rather than making it worse.
I think we should enforce our laws. You have yet to state why we shouldn't. You have yet to provide a convicing argument why we shouldn't deport Ms. Cototl, refuse to give DL's to illegal immigrants, refuse provide them with free medical care and reduce other incentives for illegal migrants to come here other than your repeated assertion that deportation is somehow impractical and the only solution is essentially amnesty.

Last edited by Eleanora1; 02-14-2011 at 03:14 PM..
 
Old 02-14-2011, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,992,476 times
Reputation: 3084
For certain posters it seems the only "solution" in their eyes is to legalise every single illegal residing in this country. They certainly seem to 'sanction' every law breaking act by any illegal.
 
Old 02-14-2011, 03:17 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,398,149 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
For certain posters it seems the only "solution" in their eyes is to legalise every single illegal residing in this country. They certainly seem to 'sanction' every law breaking act by any illegal.
Not only legalization but benefits as well.

Apparently every single person should be allowed to come here and get free schooling, free health care and whatever other benefits they can grab from the American taxpayer. Because while deportation is allegedly too expensive funding the needs of illegal immigrants won't cost us anything.

Or if does cost well we should just suck it up and pay for it because the alternative is enforcing our laws and that would never work.

Yeah.
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