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Old 02-16-2011, 02:22 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 7,756,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post

And if a certain member of a cultural group DOESN'T want to adopt American or European cultural norms, then they have nobody but themselves to whine to when they are not accepted or are excluded from business, government or other institutions that are founded on evil European cultural values. Why should they "let you in" so to speak, if you don't care to truly become American?
Historically this country has rejected people even when they attempted to become part of American society by exclusion, segregation and discrimination. That inlcludes discriminating against other Europeans during various times in this country's history which makes the whole "If you adopt to American Culture you wont' be discriminated against" arugment complete and utter bulls********t.

The fact of the matter is this country was founded on a social structure which confers social, poltical and economic power and privilege based on race. Multiculturalism and the changing ethnic and racial demographics of this country are the biggest threat to the social and power structure yet. The people that benefit from this social structure recognize this threat and now are using rallying cries against multiculturalism in an effort to perserve their place of power and privilege in society.

It's not going to work.

 
Old 02-16-2011, 02:33 PM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Historically this country has rejected people even when they attempted to become part of American society by exlusion, segregation and disrimination. That inlcludes discriminating against other Europeans during various times in this country's history which makes the whole "If you adopt to American Culture you wont' be discriminated against" arugment complete and utter bulls********t.

Gotta stop living "historically"... is that the case TODAY? Even where it was the case in the past, did it stop all the predecessors from assimilating and TRYING in spite of the pressure from those who didn't want the new people around? Why today, when Americans WANT newcomers to adopt and become American like them is it suddenly the desire for newcomers to be happy with self-inflicted cultural segregation?


Today the issue is whether NEWCOMERS will or should assimilate. Blacks are assimilated and are largely accepted where they identify culturally with white people. Ghetto culture is not accepted, and people who act ghetto will NOT be treated equally (but don't fret, white middle class Americans reject their own races' version of ghetto - the redneck). Asians are largely assimilated and have very little problems, despite the previous exclusion by law.

There are really only a few recent population groups who refuse to assimilate, or seem intent on rejecting all things "American."
 
Old 02-16-2011, 02:39 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,051,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Gotta stop living "historically"... is that the case TODAY? Even where it was the case in the past, did it stop all the predecessors from assimilating and TRYING in spite of the pressure from those who didn't want the new people around? Why today, when Americans WANT newcomers to adopt and become American like them is it suddenly the desire for newcomers to be happy with self-inflicted cultural segregation?
Of course it was back in the good old days when folks discuss "closing the loophole" in the 14th Amendment, or vociferously oppose legislation like the Dream Act that would allow fully assimilated American youth from gaining citizenship despite the fact that their parents brought them to this country when they were small children and of course it was back in the day when states proposed laws that would make anyone looking "hispanic" the subject of unwarranted police stops, searches and interrogations... all that stuff in the past.
 
Old 02-16-2011, 02:54 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 7,756,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Blacks are assimilated and are largely accepted where they identify culturally with white people. Ghetto culture is not accepted, and people who act ghetto will NOT be treated equally (but don't fret, white middle class Americans reject their own races' version of ghetto - the redneck). Asians are largely assimilated and have very little problems, despite the previous exclusion by law.
Not universally true at all. Just do a search or the word "Diversity" here on CD and you will see threads where it's obvious that a signficant portion of the population of White Americans would be perfectly happy if they could live in envirnoment where they could work, live and worship without any non-White people.

In many cases non-White people aren't really accepted they are tolerated.

Your "Identify With White People And Be Accepted" premise drips with a cultural arrogance that exactly why multiculturalism is flourishing. There isn't any particular reason for a person to accept a culture unless they choose to. Your admission that you are perfectly willing to "Not Treat People Equally" is a testament to the fact some White Americans feel it's perfectly legitimate to use discrimination to maintain social, poltical or economic power.

Your entire logic gets back to one thing. Your perfectly willing to aceept people as long as they tow the line in accepting social, economic and poltical dominance by White Americans. Your protest against multiculturalism are a testment to the fact White American cultural dominance is being threatened.
 
Old 02-16-2011, 02:55 PM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy;
The fact of the matter is this country was founded on a social structure which confers social, poltical and economic power and privilege based on race.
This country was founded without any care for people of other races besides European. Natives were a nuisance not meant to be part of the country, and blacks weren't considered anything but property. There was no original "hierarchy" of races because the only population that was meant to be part of the nation was white. Ironically, if slave states hadn't lobbied for blacks to be counted, they wouldn't have even been considered 3/5ths of a person.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy
Multiculturalism and the changing ethnic and racial demographics of this country are the biggest threat to the social and power structure yet. The people that benefit from this social structure recognize this threat and now are using rallying cries against multiculturalism in an effort to perserve their place of power and privilege in society.

It's not going to work.
This is complete BS, and incredibly overstated. Numbers are really irrelevant. Consider that Jewish people represent...3%? of the population in the United States and hold positions of power and influence in law, science, government and medicine... up to 30% of lawyers are of Jewish descent, for example. Asians are also over-represented in the professional science communities. The "numbers" don't matter vis-a-vis influence and power.

Besides, considering that "minority majority" and "changing demographics" only occurs when including the amorphous "Hispanic" category (why Hispanics are considered not white or not black if they are, in fact, white or black defies explanation), your argument doesn't really hold water. Not all Hispanics are as resistant to becoming American as, say, Mexicans. The only issue going forward is whether "Hispanics" will try to change American culture into something that resembles what they have "back home."

Latin America is not a particularly nice place to live for most people. Those countries that HAVE adopted the Euro-Western model the most have thrived the most (Argentina, Uruguay, etc.).


AND, you have ignored the question: WHY is multiculturalism "a good thing"?
 
Old 02-16-2011, 03:06 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 7,756,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Oh come on! The Europeans were really just the LAST and most successful in the world history of invasion and plunder before the modern age. There was no prohibition against that sort of behavior until the modern age when modern thinkers began to agree that empire building was something that wasn't good.
Actually they began see that empire building WAS NO LONGER SUSTAINABLE.

Oh so I guess since there is no prohibition against plundering that makes it somehow more palatable to you.


Oh. and European countries held on to various colonies around the world well until the 1960's the only reason that they gave them up is they came to the realization that the drain on their military resources to hold these countries was simply too high a price to pay.
 
Old 02-16-2011, 03:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
We saw how that worked

Look at what Spain did
Well then I guess you can excuse immigrants from Latin America for

just "Doing what works".
 
Old 02-16-2011, 03:11 PM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Not universally true at all. Just do a search or the word "Diversity" here on CD and you will see threads where it's obvious that a signficant portion of the population of White Americans would be perfectly happy if they could live in envirnoment where they could work, live and worship without any non-White people.
Most populations want to be with people they look like and identify with. That is a fact that some people will just have to deal with. Just today on NPR there was a story about how companies have a hard time recruiting minorities to Portland, Oregon, because minorities don't see enough of "their people" in that area.

Personally, I don' care about the race of my neighbors, as long as they share my cultural values. But, I live in a diverse area. I see no benefit to my city that we have a "Latin" community that segregates itself off and doesn't participate civically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy
Your "Identify With White People And Be Accepted" premise drips with a cultural arrogance that exactly why multiculturalism is flourishing. There isn't any particular reason for a person to accept a culture unless they choose to.
It's only arrogance if it's not true. You cannot flourish in the United States as a whole if you stay within your ethnic enclave. Or, you might flourish, but only among your peers. If you want to remain a "_____" in America, living as you did back home, WHY come to America in the first place? What was it about America that attracted you here?

And it works both ways: No reason for any American of any color to accept a "new" culture unless they damn well want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy
Your entire logic gets back to one thing. Your perfectly willing to aceept people as long as they tow the line in accepting social, economic and poltical dominance by White Americans. Your protest against multiculturalism are a testment to the fact White American cultural dominance is being threatened.
And YOUR case for "multiculturalism" gets back to one thing: Private joy in (perceived) decline of European cultural influence. But, you are misguided. In many cases (such as Hispanics), you are merely reveling in the substitution and lessening influence of British-European culture for another white Spanish European culture.

Cause really, it's not as if even Mexicans go around celebrating Aztec holidays these days.
 
Old 02-16-2011, 03:12 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 7,756,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
This is why its failing, we got foreigners dictating & invading on our country
Turnabout is fair play.

We invaded this country and now we are being invaded.
 
Old 02-16-2011, 03:16 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 7,756,587 times
Reputation: 3113
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Let's be real: Anglo cultural foundation is "shoved down everybody's throat" because it's a proven recipe for success, and the governing and business structure of the nation is based on that cultural foundation.
It's a proven recipe of success for White Americans in terms of perserving political, social and economic power.

At the end of the day that's all you REALLY care about.
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