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Old 02-16-2011, 04:16 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,126,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
AND, you have ignored the question: WHY is multiculturalism "a good thing"?
I'm still trying to figure out why there is even a question since multiculturalism is a fact of American life always has been and always will be as long as people from divergent cultures exist in this country.

The only good or bad thing is when some folks are going to be willing to accept the fact or remain in denial.

ON EDIT:

If I were forced to answer the question, I would say that if we consider the U.S. to be a successful nation so far, then Multiculturalism is without a doubt a good thing since the U.S. as it is today, would not have achieved greatness without it.

 
Old 02-16-2011, 04:23 PM
 
17,286 posts, read 25,015,617 times
Reputation: 8527
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Actually they began see that empire building WAS NO LONGER SUSTAINABLE.
It was a bit more complicated than that, no? Thoughts on the propriety of empire building continued to evolve through the 1960s and 1970s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy
Oh so I guess since there is no prohibition against plundering that makes it somehow more palatable to you.
You need to calm down your rhetoric. It's not that its more "palatable," it's just that I do not hold dead people to the same standards as people alive today. Why would you hold Europeans to different standards than any other empire builders that preceded them?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy
Oh. and European countries held on to various colonies around the world well until the 1960's the only reason that they gave them up is they came to the realization that the drain on their military resources to hold these countries was simply too high a price to pay.
Yep, and we fought wars in the 20th century to prevent empire building by other white people (Germans), some non-white people (Japanese), and to this day, China insists on continuing its subjugation of Tibet, and Arab invaders terrorize blacks in Sudan, etc.

Meanwhile, to this day some of the former colonies still have pride in being part of the "Commonwealth," etc.

Or do you forget that the United States and Canada were also colonies?

Last edited by TriMT7; 02-16-2011 at 04:38 PM..
 
Old 02-16-2011, 04:38 PM
 
17,286 posts, read 25,015,617 times
Reputation: 8527
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I'm still trying to figure out why there is even a question since multiculturalism is a fact of American life always has been and always will be as long as people from divergent cultures exist in this country.
Yes. Supreficial multiculturalism is good. More food, more art and varied music. But REAL "multiculturalism"... where there isn't an overall common culture or there's populations side by side that don't have the same values, there is CONFLICT.

The American melting pot has always had the same base "broth" so to speak: English language primacy, certain traditions and holidays, work ethic, adherence to certain laws and values... each new culture adds to the flavor, but if you simply pour Chicken Noodle Soup into black bean soup you get a disgusting concoction rather than a tasty soup.

Having a general, overarching culture is important in multi-racial and multi-ethnic societies where there is little else to bind people together in civic duty and pride towards one another. Why should any tax payer want to invest in the children or well being of other people who do not share their common core values?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovcatto
If I were forced to answer the question, I would say that if we consider the U.S. to be a successful nation so far, then Multiculturalism is without a doubt a good thing since the U.S. as it is today, would not have achieved greatness without it.
I agree. But some, such as JazzyTallGuy, appear to applaud the death of the "old model" of assimilation in favor of a hodge podge a la the Balkan states. We all know how successful THAT was!
 
Old 02-16-2011, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Jamestown NY
434 posts, read 356,110 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Historically this country has rejected people even when they attempted to become part of American society by exclusion, segregation and discrimination. That inlcludes discriminating against other Europeans during various times in this country's history which makes the whole "If you adopt to American Culture you wont' be discriminated against" arugment complete and utter bulls********t.

The fact of the matter is this country was founded on a social structure which confers social, poltical and economic power and privilege based on race. Multiculturalism and the changing ethnic and racial demographics of this country are the biggest threat to the social and power structure yet. The people that benefit from this social structure recognize this threat and now are using rallying cries against multiculturalism in an effort to perserve their place of power and privilege in society.

It's not going to work.
If you don't like it here feel free to go find a freer and better society to live in.... We are a Democratic, Constitutional Republic based in the blessings of liberty from our creator who endowed us with the right to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.... All men created equal is the Godly moral principle that lead to the freeing of slaves, the emancipation proclamation, and the civil rights act of 1964. So, what we face today in our society has little to do with race Politically, and more to do with divisiveness being created by Multiculturalism, and Economic Centralization that exploits these truths which are self evident through the progressive mechanizations of social factionalization being used to enslave us all to tyranny.... This is why we all have the right to bear arms....

Emancipation Proclamation

Emancipation Proclamation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Civil Rights Act of 1964

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Social Fractionalization, Political Instability, and the Size of Government

This paper explores the relationship between the degree of division or fractionalization of a country's population (along ethnolinguistic and religious dimensions) and both political instability and government consumption, using a neoclassical growth model. The principal idea is that greater fractionalization, proxying for the degree of conflict in society, leads to political instability, which in turn leads to higher government consumption aimed at placating the opposition. There is also a feedback mechanism whereby the higher consumption leads to less instability as government consumption reduces the risk of losing office. Empirical evidence based on panel estimation supports this hypothesis. Copyright 2002, International Monetary Fund.


http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2000/wp0082.pdf

Destroying Cultural Continuity
The Leftist War On Social Cohesion

http://pages.prodigy.net/krtq73aa/continu.htm (broken link)

Individualism, Community and the American Character (http://www.drake.edu/artsci/PolSci/ssjrnl/blankley.html - broken link)

Dream Act Amnesty Equals The Destruction of America

http://www.alipac.us/article-5946-thread-1-0.html

Last edited by zeitgeist2012; 02-16-2011 at 04:49 PM..
 
Old 02-16-2011, 04:50 PM
 
17,286 posts, read 25,015,617 times
Reputation: 8527
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Turnabout is fair play.

We invaded this country and now we are being invaded.

Turnabout is when the invaded become the subsequent inavders, and vice versa. I don't know how that fits in or is relevant to the United States?

Your loathing for this country is very obvious, but your emotions cloud your logic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy
It's a proven recipe of success for White Americans in terms of perserving political, social and economic power.
Yes, it's all the "white man's plan"! Cause it does WONDERS for workplace cohesion and team building for 50 languages to be spoken in the office at once, or for there to be 100 holidays for 100 different cultures. THAT is GREAT for business!

But wait, what about Asians, who successfully assimilate and out-earn whites on average? Could it be a reason why they outperform those who hold on to their barrio "back home" culture?

Guess THEY are really pulling one over on the "man," huh, who never saw it coming?

I guess 50 year old Polish men should demand work at black barber shops, or at the Taqueria stand that caters to migrant workers. After all, the ability for the Polish guy to properly interact with the target customer, and to interact with the other employees shouldn't matter at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy
At the end of the day that's all you REALLY care about.
And all you care about, apparently is finding ways to get over personal racial inferiority complex (I assure you, not shared by all), to the detriment of the vitality nation or even your peers. I'm sure the blacks in SE LA that find themselves the targeted victims of "multiculturalism" from SOB identify with your 60s-era rhetoric. Raised fist in the air! But hey, at least the white people are moving away! Fight the power and all that good stuff.
 
Old 02-16-2011, 04:55 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,652 posts, read 7,133,021 times
Reputation: 2840
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
American Culture changes the immigrants and the immigrants change American culture. This is not new. The trick is to be flexible enough to get along in the changed conditions.
Amen! (could not rep you again yet grr)
 
Old 02-16-2011, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Jamestown NY
434 posts, read 356,110 times
Reputation: 68
Well said....
 
Old 02-16-2011, 05:37 PM
 
17,286 posts, read 25,015,617 times
Reputation: 8527
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Of course it was back in the good old days when folks discuss "closing the loophole" in the 14th Amendment,
Different issue, different thread. But, you see no problem with birthright citizenship being exploited and abused to confer social welfare benefits, and to skip ahead of people in the immigration line? Especially when American hospitals and taxpayers then have to foot the bill for said progeny for the next 18-22 years in the form of WIC, foodstamps, schooling and finally, financial aid? You don't care at all that those resources could be going to AMERICANS and our invited immigrant guests?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
or vociferously oppose legislation like the Dream Act that would allow fully assimilated American youth from gaining citizenship despite the fact that their parents brought them to this country when they were small children
See above. You cannot incentivize law breaking, period. And if the largest pool of people taking advantage of both the 14th Amendment loophole and the "Dream Act" didn't come from the most vocal community that is THE poster board for "non-assimiliating" and "overly entitled" immigrants, there might be more support for same!

The "Dream Act" also had ridiculous conditions...2 years at some BS community college? Really? It's that easy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
and of course it was back in the day when states proposed laws that would make anyone looking "hispanic" the subject of unwarranted police stops, searches and interrogations... all that stuff in the past.
Um... I'm pretty sure you and others were involved in exhaustive debate on this issue to no avail. The law said and allowed no such thing.
 
Old 02-16-2011, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Jamestown NY
434 posts, read 356,110 times
Reputation: 68
Well said...again.... You are really on the ball on this issue. I do not now how much more can be said to add to the facts of the matter.... Wow! It is deep and a lot to learn....
 
Old 02-16-2011, 08:40 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,652 posts, read 7,133,021 times
Reputation: 2840
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeitgeist2012 View Post
Well said...again.... You are really on the ball on this issue. I do not now how much more can be said to add to the facts of the matter.... Wow! It is deep and a lot to learn....
Who are you replying to???
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