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Old 03-08-2011, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Western Broward sprawl
146 posts, read 184,657 times
Reputation: 167

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The problem though is that they are breaking the law and they are making life harder for Americans. I put the welfare of the citizens of this country above the welfare of foreingers especially those here illegally. We allow 1.5 million legal immigrants in here annually to make a better life for themselves and their families and that is all we can accomodate before it negatively impacts the citizens of this country.
In reference to the highlighted sentence above, just one small request - please, please, please speak for yourself. You speak for yourself, and a certain vocal segment of the population who is very active on boards such as these and at Tea Party rallies. You absolutely do not speak for me, and you do not speak for "Americans".

An immigrant from Latin America, China, or Africa coming to this country to ameliorate their quality of life does not in any way make my life harder. I, and many like me, do not in any manner want to be lumped in with the folks who spend their time bashing "illegal immigrants" in this forum or elsewhere. Their philosophy and political aims are 180 degrees different from mine. To each his own, the anti-immigrant crowd has the right to their views, but I thoroughly reject that way of thinking.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,237,724 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLGator487 View Post
In reference to the highlighted sentence above - please, please, please speak for yourself, and yourself only. An immigrant from Latin America, China, or Africa coming to this country to ameliorate their quality of life does not in any way make my life harder. To be clear, I do not in any manner want to be lumped in with the folks who spend their time bashing "illegal immigrants" in this forum or elsewhere. Their philosophy and political aims are 180 degrees different from mine. To each his own, but I thoroughly reject that way of thinking.
Which dont change the fact ILLEGAL aliens are still criminals. People who come here legaly aint the problem. Even legal Mexicans.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Western Broward sprawl
146 posts, read 184,657 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
Which dont change the fact ILLEGAL aliens are still criminals. People who come here legaly aint the problem. Even legal Mexicans.
So are people who shoplift, engage in insurance fraud, commit arson, and intentionally breach contracts. For some reason, the City-Data folks did not create separate forums for those types of miscreants. As far as I'm concerned, greed-driven financial derivatives traders who live on the Upper East Side pose a far more potent threat to our collective well-being than poor, desperate immigrants sneaking across the border, as the economic events of 2007-2011 have shown.

It just bothers me when folks use the term "Americans" in that manner, to lump all of us together, when many of us could not have a more different view on the issue of immigration than the prevalent voices in this forum.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:02 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
Those illegals that you mentioned who "only want a better life", are a very small percentage and they also use forged, fake or stolen documents, SS #'s and ID's in order work.
But still you feel that just because they want a "better life", justifies their breaking of Laws, in order to get that "better life".

It's not always "what they want", but how they go about getting what they want, is what labels them as criminals.

BTW, What someones anscestors did is irrelevant and plays not part in this issue.
This always baffles me also when history is used as an argument defending illegal aliens today. Since when are we responsible for what our ancestors did or didn't do anyway? I had no control over what they did and may or may not have condoned their actions depending on what they were. What happened in history has no bearing on our right to have immigration laws todays. Times have changed and our laws have had to change to reflect them.

Last edited by chicagonut; 03-08-2011 at 07:12 AM..
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:10 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLGator487 View Post
In reference to the highlighted sentence above, just one small request - please, please, please speak for yourself. You speak for yourself, and a certain vocal segment of the population who is very active on boards such as these and at Tea Party rallies. You absolutely do not speak for me, and you do not speak for "Americans".

An immigrant from Latin America, China, or Africa coming to this country to ameliorate their quality of life does not in any way make my life harder. I, and many like me, do not in any manner want to be lumped in with the folks who spend their time bashing "illegal immigrants" in this forum or elsewhere. Their philosophy and political aims are 180 degrees different from mine. To each his own, the anti-immigrant crowd has the right to their views, but I thoroughly reject that way of thinking.
Did I say that I speak for you or all Americans? I speak from the statistics that are out there about the negative impact of illegal immigration. It is only common sense also that when you have millions of illegal aliens flooding your borders that can't be a good thing for any country.

What anti-"immigrant" crowd? We are talking about illegal aliens here, not immigrants.
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:25 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
There is a huge difference between giving a poor person a meal and turning over your home to them and their entire family. Many Americans aren't able to provide for their own and one of the reasons is because illegal aliens have taken their jobs and jacked up their taxes in the way of their social costs. Don't you think your compassion is a little misplaced?
I see the usual exaggerated rhetoric. When did I say my mom gave meal and turn over her home to them and an entire family? Tell me where. Please re-read. That comment does not apply to me. After you re-read it and you still interpret that same things show me so I can see it and maybe correct myself. As far as jobs taken away from Americans, tell me which job are they taking away. What types of jobs do illegals usually take? From there we can go on. When I read the type of wording you wrote gives me the perception that emotions come into play so they lead you to write exaggerated rhetoric on words I never wrote. Nothing wrong with feeling emotional about issues but it is good to keep emotions at bay to keep a clear head on the subject.
I reiterate that the reason we have quotas for immigration is because anything above those numbers negatively impacts our own citizens. Should we let our own suffer so we can take in the needy of the world? That would be committing national suicide and killing the goose that laid the golden egg so to speak.
I do agree with you here. I am for quotas as you do. Actually, I do not agree with the people that immigration should be for people to get reunited. NO! Immigration quotas should be to welcome skills America need and we may be lacking. President Johnson in my opinion was at fault for signing bills that changed the attitude on immigration to help families. Immigration should be so it support our national interest, it's not a social program. Again, tell which types of jobs they are taking away from our people and I will let you know whether I agree on that or not. For example, if you tell me they come here to pick tomatoes I am very sure they are not taking jobs from Americans. I have seen reports that many CA growers have lost large parts of their harvest because there is not enough people to harvest now that immigration is getting looking closer on the people they hire. What does that do to the economy and the consumer? Those jobs that immigrants can't get, do you see Americans walking miles and miles and possibly even die under the scorching sun to get them as immigrants do? No! Heck no! I am not implying we should allow illegal immigrants to work on those fields. We should allow them maybe some type of temporary work visas during the harvest season get the jobs Americans do not like to do, legally.

As for our past history, it gets tiresome when someone tries to justify illegal immigration based on that. What country isn't without its dark side in history? Does that mean they have no right to immigration laws then?
It is not justifying. I am addressing a certain type of attitude that more than fairness that is claimed sound a lot of a holier than thou. I hear this 'we are a country of laws'. Yes, we are but when I hear people talking as if they do not commit crimes at all and are so condenming of others when they do. I have my share of law breaking in life. I have lied. I have done things in my life I am not to proud of. Everyday I try to be a better human being than the day before. So when I address an issue I do address it from the standpoint of saying it is wrong but I do not go out there condemning people as if my excretion does not stink. That to me is hypocritical. Also, did I use past history and said it was justification for illegal immigration? No. I stated the point I just repeated righ above this couple of lines so what you wrote does not apply.

I am not saying that you have said any of these things but these questions have to arise based on your views on illegal immigration. They are valid questions not putting words in your mouth.
You actually put word in my mouth as I already explained. Did I not say that I believe in legal immigration? Yes I did. Did I not say I agree in bringing people legally? Yes I did. So what is the problem then. I got involved on this debate originaly when I simply answered the question from the OP and addressed what I sensed more than just the fairness of the situation. After that I keep seeing people putting words into the OP that he did now say at all. Actually, I believe that the question you said arise should not arise because the answers to them I already covered. Look at my message more closely, take care.
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:34 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
Those illegals that you mentioned who "only want a better life", are a very small percentage and they also use forged, fake or stolen documents, SS #'s and ID's in order work.
But still you feel that just because they want a "better life", justifies their breaking of Laws, in order to get that "better life".

It's not always "what they want", but how they go about getting what they want, is what labels them as criminals.

BTW, What someones anscestors did is irrelevant and plays not part in this issue.
Please read my last message #206 and I believe the previous ones. You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that because they are looking for a better life it justifies them to do what they did. It looks to me you have never been in a postition many of those people have to resort to what they feel they need to do. I have seen their faces of desperation, hunger, and after seeing God knows how long they have walked risking their lives to try to do whatever they can to put food on their families mouths. If I am correct I am glad you have never had to be in that situation. If you were, I am venture to guess that you would not be sitting in such high moral ground pointing fingers. Look what people do when they cross the a picke line here in America. Did they actually break a law? No, but see how other fellow Americans resort to the extent of even murdering someone that simply accepted a job. However, those people are glorified for killing someone that did not break law for accepting a job, take care.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:00 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
You actually put word in my mouth as I already explained. Did I not say that I believe in legal immigration? Yes I did. Did I not say I agree in bringing people legally? Yes I did. So what is the problem then. I got involved on this debate originaly when I simply answered the question from the OP and addressed what I sensed more than just the fairness of the situation. After that I keep seeing people putting words into the OP that he did now say at all. Actually, I believe that the question you said arise should not arise because the answers to them I already covered. Look at my message more closely, take care.
I repeat once again:

"I am not saying that you have said any of these things but these questions have to arise based on your views on illegal immigration. They are valid questions, not putting words in your mouth".

Just saying that bringing up acts of kindness like providing a meal to an illegal alien is not the same thing as turning your entire home over to them. If it were just a matter of giving them a meal and sending them home then I am ok with that but they don't go home they remain here and take American jobs and benefits. There is only a small percentage of illegals picking crops. The farmers already have unlimited H-2A visas for legal immigrant crop pickers. Did you know that? Most illegals aren't picking crops. They are doing jobs that Americans have always done for a fair wage.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,335 posts, read 5,726,919 times
Reputation: 2058
i agree that it "isn't a big deal," at least from where i sit. i can name a dozen or two higher priority issues. i might feel different if i lived in Yuma though. it would be nice if we could equally distribute the illegals. i wouldn't mind a few around here. our mexican food is the worst.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:08 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
i agree that it "isn't a big deal," at least from where i sit. i can name a dozen or two higher priority issues. i might feel different if i lived in Yuma though. it would be nice if we could equally distribute the illegals. i wouldn't mind a few around here. our mexican food is the worst.
Then why don't you encourage Mexican-American citizens to move to your neck of the woods instead? Are you under the impression that only Mexican illegals can cook Mexican food?
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