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Old 03-03-2011, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,975,847 times
Reputation: 3084

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Personally I don't even see a requirement for them to be legally married. Most countries now only offer birthright citizenship if one of the parents is either a citizen or a legal resident. That alone denies USC to the offspring of those here illegally (if both parents are) or to those using so-called birth tourism to gain USC for their children.

I can't understand why, even leaving aside the legalities etc of children of illegals re the 14th etc etc, what on earth legislators are thinking allowing TOURISTS to enter this country to give birth then bestowing automatic citizenship rights on their children. Tourists have absolutely ZERO allegience to this country, and aren't residents of this country under ANY rule of law. Imho they should address the birth tourism "industry" first.

Let's clear THAT mess up first, then MAYBE we can have a "rational" discussion about the children of those here illegally.
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Old 03-04-2011, 02:49 AM
 
1,058 posts, read 1,041,296 times
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this is one liberal that can get behind ending birthright citizenship.

and i only received US citizenship solely because of birthright citizenship.
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:45 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,095,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayarcy View Post
Children should be citizens of their mother's country, unless the parents were legally married at the time of the birth, and the father is a US citizen, in which case they can claim citizenship through the father.

"under the jurisdicition thereof"




Quote:
The decision in Elk v. Wilkins concerned only members of the Indian tribes within the United States, and had no tendency to deny citizenship to children born in the United States of foreign parents of Caucasian, African, or Mongolian descent, not in the diplomatic service of a foreign country.
The real object of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution, in qualifying the words 'all persons born in the United States' by the addition 'and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,' would appear to have been to exclude, by the fewest and fittest words (besides children of members of the Indian tribes, standing in a peculiar relation to the national government, unknown to the common law), the two classes of cases,- children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation, and children of diplomatic representatives of a foreign state
The Jusitices cited that Indian tribes, were independent nations, inside the territory of the US. These persons although born on US soil, held alliegence to the tribe and were not subject to repersentation and the laws of the United States.


United States v. Wong Kim Ark
Quote:
The reasons for not allowing to other aliens exemption 'from the jurisdiction of the country in which they are found' were stated as follows: 'When private individuals of one nation spread themselves through another as business or caprice may direct, mingling indiscriminately with the inhabitants of that other, or when merchant vessels enter for the purposes of trade, it would be obviously inconvenient and dangerous to society, and would subject the laws to continual infraction, and the government to degradation, if such individuals or merchants did not owe temporary and local allegiance, and were [SIZE=-1][169 U.S. 649, 686] [/SIZE]not amenable to the jurisdiction of the country.
FindLaw | Cases and Codes

If aliens are subject to punitive laws, then the are considered "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"...so would their children born on US soil. Cant be one without the other.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
"under the jurisdicition thereof"






The Jusitices cited that Indian tribes, were independent nations, inside the territory of the US. These persons although born on US soil, held alliegence to the tribe and were not subject to repersentation and the laws of the United States.


United States v. Wong Kim Ark

FindLaw | Cases and Codes

If aliens are subject to punitive laws, then the are considered "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"...so would their children born on US soil. Cant be one without the other.
Do illegal aliens hold allegiance to the U.S., or their countries of origin?

Illegals can use a stolen or fake SSN, yet be immune from prosecution for ID theft. However, a U.S. citizen or legal resident can NOT commit the same act with impunity.

It is a violation of Federal Law for a non-citizen to live in this country without authorization. Yet, we have untold millions violating said law with impunity.

It is a violation of Federal Law for an illegal alien to work in this country. Yet, time and again during worksite raids, their employment is terminated, but they are not punished.

The DOJ released 500,000 criminal aliens in 2010. How can they be considered subject to the jurisdiction thereof, if they are permitted to violate federal law with impunity?

Bottom line: If ALL of our laws are not applicable to illegal aliens, and if illegals are permitted to violate our laws with impunity, can they actually be considered “subject to the jurisdiction thereof?”

Last edited by Benicar; 03-04-2011 at 10:24 AM..
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,975,847 times
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If a TOURIST in this country commits a crime then they are subject to the jurisdiction of US criminal law and can be arrested and tried for said crime. They are also entitled to human rights, but they are in NO WAY subject to the jurisdiction of the USA under the terms of the Constitution. They are a FOREIGN NATIONAL and remain so.

The same holds true for those foreign nationals living illegally within our borders.
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Old 03-06-2011, 02:10 AM
 
1,150 posts, read 992,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
If a TOURIST in this country commits a crime then they are subject to the jurisdiction of US criminal law and can be arrested and tried for said crime. They are also entitled to human rights, but they are in NO WAY subject to the jurisdiction of the USA under the terms of the Constitution. They are a FOREIGN NATIONAL and remain so.

The same holds true for those foreign nationals living illegally within our borders.
Exactly! Just like Native Americans, although subject to the jurisdiction of their tribe, were under legal jurisdiction of US law enforcement while off the reservation insofar as they could be arrested, and prosecuted, by USLE for committing a crime. I believe the same should hold true for illegal aliens. Just because they happen to be out of the country in which they hold citizenship, shouldn't mean they aren't still under the jurisdiction of that country.
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