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Old 03-17-2011, 03:16 AM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,944,131 times
Reputation: 3083

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Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
I would have been happy to see a compromise law. That's not what this is panning out to be.

Here's much much more than 2 cents...

Punish those who comply with the law?
That's slime if I ever heard it. Why can't they be satisfied taxing them in line with the rest of us so they genuinely pay their way here? Isn't that the real meat and potatoes of the anti- illegal argument? Or is this just yet another American chapter of pin the tail on the scapegoat?

If I were an illegal immigrant I'd guess this were Utah's way of herding me so I'd be an easier target to have even more malevolence inflicted upon myself. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... Republicans as the new permit Raj shaking people down for exorbitant toilet tolls? Someone please define Republican before things get any uglier than they already are.

I think this is Utah's way of pushing the envelope to let Federal authority know (just like az, tx, etc) that they've fallen down on the job. And they have. For decades. This exercise in folly is punctuating how the Federal government has both hindered states rights and neglected their true mission of reasonably resolving multiple jurisdictional issues. I'm glad this debate is public. I'm glad they're looking hard at how bass-ackwards this truly is. The more hair brained the remedies suggested the more they prove the point. I haven't laughed this hard since George Carlin rest his soul.
Interesting viewpoint - I have to wonder if you also consider the fees LEGAL migrants pay for complying with the laws an act of slime as well? Trust me, they can range WELL over $2,500
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:22 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
I would have been happy to see a compromise law. That's not what this is panning out to be.

Here's much much more than 2 cents...

Punish those who comply with the law?
That's slime if I ever heard it. Why can't they be satisfied taxing them in line with the rest of us so they genuinely pay their way here? Isn't that the real meat and potatoes of the anti- illegal argument? Or is this just yet another American chapter of pin the tail on the scapegoat?

If I were an illegal immigrant I'd guess this were Utah's way of herding me so I'd be an easier target to have even more malevolence inflicted upon myself. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... Republicans as the new permit Raj shaking people down for exorbitant toilet tolls? Someone please define Republican before things get any uglier than they already are.

I think this is Utah's way of pushing the envelope to let Federal authority know (just like az, tx, etc) that they've fallen down on the job. And they have. For decades. This exercise in folly is punctuating how the Federal government has both hindered states rights and neglected their true mission of reasonably resolving multiple jurisdictional issues. I'm glad this debate is public. I'm glad they're looking hard at how bass-ackwards this truly is. The more hair brained the remedies suggested the more they prove the point. I haven't laughed this hard since George Carlin rest his soul.
Actually, no. The real meat and potatoes argument by us anti-illegals is that they are here in violation of our immigration laws and should be deported as designated in those laws. The fact that many don't pay taxes or not enough taxes to cover their social costs is just one of the negative side affects. Even if they paid taxes I would still object to their presence here based on our laws. I have often said that is why we have quotas for legal immigration. Anything above those numbers via illegal immigration defeats our purpose of having immigration quotas.
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:24 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreXican View Post
One thing I noticed:
"Immigrant" rights groups are going to sue the enforcement law, but no word yet on if anybody is going to sue the "Guest-worker" law. The Guest-worker law better be challenged in court, or else I will be outraged that enforcement can be "unconstitutional" yet blatant disrespect of our federal immigration laws is okay and unchallenged.
It had better be challenged by Obama since he is the one that challenged the Az law.
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:35 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,084,676 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It had better be challenged by Obama since he is the one that challenged the Az law.

Utah's Guest Worker Act would to seek waivers from the federal government to allow undocumented workers to work in Utah.

If the federal government grants the waivers, Utah would be in compliance with US immigration and federal law; If Utah procedes with inacting the law without waivers from the federal government, then Utah would not be in compliance.
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:29 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
Utah's Guest Worker Act would to seek waivers from the federal government to allow undocumented workers to work in Utah.

If the federal government grants the waivers, Utah would be in compliance with US immigration and federal law; If Utah procedes with inacting the law without waivers from the federal government, then Utah would not be in compliance.
I understand the process that will have to be followed now. My point was that if Obama doesn't challenge it or gives Utah a waiver, he is a hypocrite.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:12 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 18,510,024 times
Reputation: 9490
Why on earth did they do this!? Still, though I strongly disagree, they have the right under the 10th Amendment to make such a law in their sovereign state. Incredibly stupid.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:17 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 18,510,024 times
Reputation: 9490
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I understand the process that will have to be followed now. My point was that if Obama doesn't challenge it or gives Utah a waiver, he is a hypocrite.
He has no right to challenge it, any more than he had a right to challenge Arizona.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:27 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
He has no right to challenge it, any more than he had a right to challenge Arizona.
Except that Arizona law doesn't contradict federal law. The big problem is that federal government makes no effort to enforce it's own laws. States are running into budget problems now with all the people showing up from other countries needing services and putting the citizens out of work.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:34 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
He has no right to challenge it, any more than he had a right to challenge Arizona.
He didn't have any right to challenge the Az law because it only mirrored federal law and the states have the right to protect themselves where the feds have been lax.

He does have the right and should challenge the Utah law because they want to make guest workers out of illegal aliens. We already have federal quotas for legal immigration into our country. The states cannot change those quotas to accomodate illegal aliens and they cannot legalize them to work here. Only the federal government can do that.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
7,359 posts, read 6,214,097 times
Reputation: 10577
This just tells me that the citizens of Utah are more sincere about their practices than their hypocritical neighbors.
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