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Old 07-25-2007, 04:45 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
My family knows racism. My great grandparents and grandparents experienced real racism first hand, and people not wanting illegals here demanding things they have NO right too ,is not racism. It is a complete scapegoat for illegal supporters that have NO ligitimate excuse for them being here. Now for those not wanting illegals here due to their race, well yes that is racism, but most of what I have read and heard is about all illegals no matter their race.
Your point is quite correct. The problem is that it is an issue that obviously holds great interest for racists of ALL colors. Someone recently (Happyappy, I think) made the point that racist groups will suddenly express great interest in cleaning up the environment, when it can be pointed out that illegals are trashing the border trails. Their interest is obviously not in "littering" so much as in WHO is littering. Stopping terrorists is much more appealing if we can, in the process, stop all immigrants, according to racist thinking.
On the other hand, it must be admitted that many people have a hundred reasons why a fence "wouldn't work", if, by "working", it was found to reduce illegal entry. Obviuosly a fence WOULD work, better than NO fence; many property owners use them with great success. But the subject immediately gets charged with "racist" aspects in its discussion, and a long list is brought forth, of reasons "fences don't work".
Reminds me of a rather "Hard-A*s" co-worker I once had, with whom I liked to debate capital punishment. He reasoned that we NEEDED capital punishment, because the prisons needed the bed space (!). He seemed VERY INTERESTED in the economics of reducing overcrowding, but I'm pretty sure that deep down inside, he simply liked the idea of "frying" the bad guys.....
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Old 07-25-2007, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086
My thoughts have nothing to do with race. itis too bad that it comes up at all. My thoughts are they are Illegal and my familywent through hell and was treated very poorly and put through true hell to become citizens. I am very resentful to those,race not important, that think they deserve or are entitled because they crossed the border 5 years ago and work here. My family recieved nothing except disrespect, threats, beatings and more,, asked for nothing, assimulated quickly(so I know it can be done) and worked and served their country. What exactly are the illeglas doing other than demanding things? So yea there is alot of resentment felt by many. Some maybe racist but to call all of us that is just untrue and uncalled for. But it is ALWAYS their firstline of attack.
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Old 07-25-2007, 05:16 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
My thoughts have nothing to do with race. itis too bad that it comes up at all. My thoughts are they are Illegal and my familywent through hell and was treated very poorly and put through true hell to become citizens. I am very resentful to those,race not important, that think they deserve or are entitled because they crossed the border 5 years ago and work here. My family recieved nothing except disrespect, threats, beatings and more,, asked for nothing, assimulated quickly(so I know it can be done) and worked and served their country. What exactly are the illeglas doing other than demanding things? So yea there is alot of resentment felt by many. Some maybe racist but to call all of us that is just untrue and uncalled for. But it is ALWAYS their firstline of attack.
In any disagreement, if there is any way that race can be brought into the situation, it will be. The "Race Card" trumps the rest of the deck, every time. One race card beats a royal flush....
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Old 07-25-2007, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
In any disagreement, if there is any way that race can be brought into the situation, it will be. The "Race Card" trumps the rest of the deck, every time. One race card beats a royal flush....
Sad, racism will never die till the card is put into the shredder.
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 89,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I can honestly say NO COUNTRY can possibly survive long without some sort of control over its perimeters.
The immigrants are only a tiny part of the picture, and, as you suggest, the immigrants are what draws the racists out of their hiding places and gets them onto this forum. But you can't deny there's s serious situation here, no matter if the racists speak up or not.
Enjoyed your post.....
I know, macmeal—it is a serious problem. And, you're right about no country surviving long without some sort of control over its perimeters. I'm not in favor of illegal immigration; if the United States really have no need to import cheaper foreign labor—something I doubt—then there really is no place for these immigrants over there; however, if the United States do have a need for foreign labor, it should be recognized, and the necessary reforms to allow guest worker programs should be made.
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 89,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
...racist groups will suddenly express great interest in cleaning up the environment, when it can be pointed out that illegals are trashing the border trails. Their interest is obviously not in "littering" so much as in WHO is littering. Stopping terrorists is much more appealing if we can, in the process, stop all immigrants, according to racist thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Reminds me of a rather "Hard-A*s" co-worker I once had, with whom I liked to debate capital punishment. He reasoned that we NEEDED capital punishment, because the prisons needed the bed space (!). He seemed VERY INTERESTED in the economics of reducing overcrowding, but I'm pretty sure that deep down inside, he simply liked the idea of "frying" the bad guys.....
These are very good points, and they demonstrate the reason why so many people who are against illegal immigration but are not racists are thought to be racists. Moreover, some non racists unwittingly fall for the racists' arguments and use them themselves.
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:27 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProudTex View Post
Could it be (possible) that Racism is not as easily recognized by some as it is by others?

Do you think a person has to experience it before they know what the dictionary meaning actually describes.

There's a big number of people who say 'Racist' and an equal number of people who say 'nuthin' Racist about that'. Who's right and who's wrong?

...and both sides are frothing at the mouth with this issue.
Obviously, ProudTex, "racist" can mean anything we want it to mean. It can mean an evil person who harbors unkind thoughts about others of a different race----it can mean someone who thinks he is genetically superior to someone of a different ethnicity----it can mean "people who have cultural values that are different than mine"...it can even mean "someone who is beating me in an argument"...all of these, and more, have at one time or another, been offered as the definition of a "racist".....
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:05 PM
 
763 posts, read 1,293,871 times
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We won’t be able to keep race out of the discussions in an open forum. The best we can hope for is to recognize those who are racist from obvious comments and then verbally lambast them until a moderator takes action.

Anyone who says that the Mexicans are the problem is correct. If roles were reversed and Americans were crashing the gates, the Mexicans would say that the Americans are the problem; they’d be right—and so are Americans who say Mexicans are the problem, and back and forth and back and forth . . . Mexicans are considered the problem because it’s from Mexico that they cross the borders. And in the reverse situation above, Americans would be the problem for the same reason crossing over the same border.

Americans can’t differentiate whether the illegals are actually Honduran, or Guatemalan, or Colombian, etc any more than, in the reverse scenario, Mexicans could determine whether the illegals were Scots, or British, or Irish, etc.

When all the various “free trade” (actually faux trade) agreements are established out of backroom deals far away from the scrutiny of We, The People, there’ll be problems with immigration that will make what we’re facing now pale in comparison. And it’s the neoconservatives who have taken over the Republican Party who want these idiotic and economy-controlling agreements to be fast-tracked before the American citizenry can find out about them and MAYBE actually do something to stop them.

That may take care of the misguided race issue because they won’t just be coming across the Mexican border.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 89,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happyappy View Post
Anyone who says that the Mexicans are the problem is correct.
This is not entirely accurate—they are not the only part of the problem, just the most visible one. The American government has allowed immigrants to cross the border illegally for decades, and have allowed big and small businesses to hire those illegal immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happyappy View Post
Americans can’t differentiate whether the illegals are actually Honduran, or Guatemalan, or Colombian, etc any more than, in the reverse scenario, Mexicans could determine whether the illegals were Scots, or British, or Irish, etc.
I think that, in this case, it would fit better to say that Latin Americans would have a hard time differentiating a Texan from a Pennsylvanian, or Americans from Canadians.
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Old 07-26-2007, 03:52 AM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 89,615 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkman18 View Post
Lamm went on: "Second, to destroy America, invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture.
I guess this means that if you are an immigrant in the United States, you need to abandon your entire cultural identity and language and adopt the “American” lifestyle, whatever that may be. I mean, it’s completely understandable for all immigrants to be required to speak fluent English and obey the law, but this is going too far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkman18 View Post
Make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal, that there are no cultural differences. Make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds."
And then he writes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkman18 View Post
"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate.
Go figure.
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