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Old 07-26-2007, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 90,097 times
Reputation: 24

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
No we didnt throw giant irish parties in the middle of the neighborhood speaking gaelic, or giant German beer fests and play loud german music and yell at everyone in German in public. And yes they have been allowed to come here by our governement, illegally and ourgovernment should be fired and we should start over. But where is the illegals accountability? No one forces them too come here, no one forces them to use and abuse our system or break our laws. But their way of life and language is being forced on us, on American citizens, yet they have no accountability for what they do, just more demands. It isnt right.
Are American celebrations tiny and silent? I've seen—or rather heard—many American tourists here in Mexico, and let me tell you, you guys are pretty damn loud.

The illegals do have accountability for their actions, but I would say that the American government and people have the most responsibility. Why do so many of you focus solely on the illegals, when the real problem is your own government and corrupt business practices? Is it because it is easier to point the blame at someone else—someone different—instead of admitting your own wrongdoing?
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:03 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,635,197 times
Reputation: 2983
MexicanGuy, you are overlooking one important point--when those "other" groups arrived here, no one was looking out for them. They were mocked, teased, disrespected, and treated roughly. No government help was available, for the most part, and no activist groups demanded the "respect" of the locals toward these newcomers. In fact, most new immigrants were made to feel ASHAMED of their "funny accents", their "weird cooking", and their "odd" habits. Even their own CHILDREN sometimes distanced themselves from their parents, and changed their names in order to "fit in". In essence, these groups underwent a "hazing" process not unlike that which exists in ANY group that's getting new members; the Fire Dept., the Boy Scouts, or the Military...MOST organizations have a "hazing" process. "New guys" get abused by "old guys"---period.
The result of this "unpleasantness" was that American citizenship was looked at as a hard-won prize, which, once you got it, was WORTH something.
Those days are long gone. No more "hazing" is allowed. No more making people "fit in". No more requiring "citizenship" in order to participate.
I realize that YOU have come up with MOSTLY reasonable ideas-- and I value your input. I'm not talking about the "average" illegal, many of whom I've known and respected over the years, and most of whom care very little about politics. Certain activist groups, however, do have, and promote, ideas that are just not compatible with American society, and opposing them does not make one a racist...
All the best to you
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 90,097 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
What should it be made easier, yea that would help. No one asks or forces them to cross. They know the risks yet instead of protesting and forcing their government to make Mexico better, they come here and take from us. It should be alot harder to cross actually.
When did I say it should be easier? My point is that your government should either let them in legally or keep them out—no halfway.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:12 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,635,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicanGuy View Post
When did I say it should be easier? My point is that your government should either let them in legally or keep them out—no halfway.
I agree with the basic insincerity of the US Gov't position-- definitely "talking out of both sides of their mouth"...
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,715,731 times
Reputation: 2096
Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicanGuy View Post
When did I say it should be easier? My point is that your government should either let them in legally or keep them out—no halfway.
But when we try to say keep them out we are called racist. There is no half way your right, but because our damn governement is so worried about being PC and having activists come out yelling " racist" they wont do what needs to be done for awhile.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:16 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,635,197 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicanGuy View Post
By saying that the U.S. government has let them in, I clearly meant that it has not done all that is in its power to stop them. Do you really think that, if the United States had a genuine interest in keeping them out, the government wouldn’t have been able to? The worst part is that, in this game of hide and seek, many illegals have died trying to cross through the desert, because the American government, in its hope of maintaining the illusion of cracking down on border jumpers, has progressively made it more dangerous for these immigrants to cross the border.
I absolutely agree with this 112%---I have said it myself many times
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 90,097 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
"New guys" get abused by "old guys"---period.
Being commonplace doesn’t make it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
The result of this "unpleasantness" was that American citizenship was looked at as a hard-won prize, which, once you got it, was WORTH something.
I disagree; just because an immigrant is illegal and doesn’t have his or her papers in order doesn’t mean they haven’t sacrificed or worked hard and honestly to earn their place in a society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I'm not talking about the "average" illegal, many of whom I've known and respected over the years, and most of whom care very little about politics.
I’m glad you feel this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Certain activist groups, however, do have, and promote, ideas that are just not compatible with American society, and opposing them does not make one a racist...
No, it isn’t—as long as you don’t fight BS with BS.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,715,731 times
Reputation: 2096
Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicanGuy View Post
Are American celebrations tiny and silent? I've seen—or rather heard—many American tourists here in Mexico, and let me tell you, you guys are pretty damn loud.

The illegals do have accountability for their actions, but I would say that the American government and people have the most responsibility. Why do so many of you focus solely on the illegals, when the real problem is your own government and corrupt business practices? Is it because it is easier to point the blame at someone else—someone different—instead of admitting your own wrongdoing?
Yes there are moron Americans that drink a little too much tequila and then feel the need to shoot off their mouth. I am not one of those (for me it is beer must be the Irish and german in me). The illegals may have accountability but they do not acknowledge it. And no I blame all equally, government, buisness, illegals. But I think it is easier to try to fight the illegals than governement (because they wont listen and are corrupt) and big business( same reason and tons of money). I do believe that if the illegals showed more respect, tried to assimulate and demanded less, and we had less forced on us ( which is the governments fault not theirs) more would want to help and be supportive.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 90,097 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
But when we try to say keep them out we are called racist.
This is, to a great extent, because there are many who do express racist and xenophobic attitudes when making their case against illegal immigration; and, there are also many who express racist and xenophobic attitudes when making their case in favor of illegal immigration.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 90,097 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
The illegals may have accountability but they do not acknowledge it. And no I blame all equally, government, buisness, illegals. But I think it is easier to try to fight the illegals than governement (because they wont listen and are corrupt) and big business( same reason and tons of money). I do believe that if the illegals showed more respect, tried to assimulate and demanded less, and we had less forced on us ( which is the governments fault not theirs) more would want to help and be supportive.
Why not fight all three, Nea1?
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