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Old 07-26-2007, 11:30 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,627,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicanGuy View Post
I agree completely. In many ways, both the American and Mexican people are caught up in a mess created by governments and businesses on both sides; so, instead of fighting each other as people, we should fight our governments.



Yes, the Mexican government and our own corrupt business elite are responsible for the extreme levels of inequality that make one Mexican the richest man in the world—Carlos Slim—and 40 million Mexicans live in poverty; 20 million in extreme poverty.
Slim is a well-known character---I've heard of him many times....
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:21 PM
 
763 posts, read 1,295,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
This is incorrect--Latin America is a complete mix of all the world's races-from nearly all-white Argentina and Uruguay, to nearly all-Indian Bolivia, Peru, and Paraguay--to the unique situation of Brazil and Panama (ALL the world's races and colors), and so on. It's true that most "Mexicans", as the term is used informally here in the US, are Mestizo. However, there are significant groups of illegal Mexicans in California who are of pure Indian descent, some of whom don't even speak fluent Spanish.
Additionally, there are a number of countries south of the US, where Mestizos are only a small minority--places like Guyana, and Surinam, whose populations contain large percentages of blacks and East Indians, but few mestizos. It's a very complex society.
Good points. Still, though, it doesn’t fit within the context of what I was trying to get across regarding racially identifying any particular native ancestry. The illegals are coming from Mexico, so the only PRACTICAL way of speaking of them in discussions about the subject is to identify them as Mexicans. And of course the reverse would be true if Americans were border-crashing from the north over the same border.

It isn’t a racial issue—at least not to me. It’s an issue of gate-crashing followed by demands by a great majority of the gate crashers to adopt the gate crashers’ standard modus operandi in daily living. If said modus operandi is so special and needs to be observed, then why leave that land in which said modus operandi was such a great deal?

I wonder what would happen in a few middle-eastern countries if hordes of gate crashers demanded in the streets that the modus operandi must be that of the newly-arrived gate crashers. Americans value life on Earth differently—fortunately.

In my humble opinion, the question of all questions in this immigration thing is this: If a place is so good as to cause one to leave a place that is so bad, what good is it to change the good place into the bad?

Of course, this leads to another question: If one has left the bad place to go to the good place, and then said migrant decides that what was left in the bad place should be modified and then used in the good place, why did said migrant not modify the bad place to be like the good place?

Are things in Mexico so overwhelmingly complex that the Mexican people are unable to effect change?

Coming to America is so much less challenging and so much less effort. Is this the cause of the onslaught of immigration? Of course it is. And the reason it continues to build is America's own government/industrial plutocracy with full unsigned agreement-in-principle of Mexico's government/industrial plutocracy.
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:30 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,627,052 times
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Originally Posted by happyappy View Post
Good points. Still, though, it doesn’t fit within the context of what I was trying to get across regarding racially identifying any particular native ancestry. The illegals are coming from Mexico, so the only PRACTICAL way of speaking of them in discussions about the subject is to identify them as Mexicans. And of course the reverse would be true if Americans were border-crashing from the north over the same border.

It isn’t a racial issue—at least not to me. It’s an issue of gate-crashing followed by demands by a great majority of the gate crashers to adopt the gate crashers’ standard modus operandi in daily living. If said modus operandi is so special and needs to be observed, then why leave that land in which said modus operandi was such a great deal?

I wonder what would happen in a few middle-eastern countries if hordes of gate crashers demanded in the streets that the modus operandi must be that of the newly-arrived gate crashers. Americans value life on Earth differently—fortunately.

In my humble opinion, the question of all questions in this immigration thing is this: If a place is so good as to cause one to leave a place that is so bad, what good is it to change the good place into the bad?

Of course, this leads to another question: If one has left the bad place to go to the good place, and then said migrant decides that what was left in the bad place should be modified and then used in the good place, why did said migrant not modify the bad place to be like the good place?

Are things in Mexico so overwhelmingly complex that the Mexican people are unable to effect change?

Coming to America is so much less challenging and so much less effort. Is this the cause of the onslaught of immigration? Of course it is. And the reason it continues to build is America's own government/industrial plutocracy with full unsigned agreement-in-principle of Mexico's government/industrial plutocracy.
Your comments come very close to your "reading my mind"--- I've argued for years on this very point; "gringos" might not be much fun, but they apparently do know how to run a country. If you're here now, it must be because someone back home treated you badly--therefore, instead of complaining about the gringos, why not try and emulate them? Maybe you won't like their food or music, but I think you will like their ideas of freedom and fairness. And if not, what have you lost by trying?
Good Post, Happyappy
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Old 07-26-2007, 01:20 PM
 
25,485 posts, read 23,323,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
You're right, MexicanGuy, he has instilled fear. Lamm is no free-lance wacko, though; he was once a state governor. You know I'm no racist, and you also know the racists are out there; we see them every day, on this forum. But I'll let you in on a little secret- in the "non-white" community up here that I'm familiar with (friends, spouse, and family) racists don't carry a lot of weight. They are kind of funny to watch, and to talk about. I suppose it's because where I live, the racists will never be in "control". What DOES bother our group, though (many who had grandparents or relatives who were illegals) is the "GOOFY" liberals (not my words alone) who are looked at as insincere. There is NO ONE I know personally, of ANY ethnicity, who is in favor of open borders, even if THEY THEMSELVES benefitted from it in the past. If that sounds "selfish", maybe it is. (I take it back- we DO have a few open-borders people, mostly high-school or college age, but not many). Forgetting the USA for a moment, I can honestly say NO COUNTRY can possibly survive long without some sort of control over its perimeters.
The immigrants are only a tiny part of the picture, and, as you suggest, the immigrants are what draws the racists out of their hiding places and gets them onto this forum. But you can't deny there's s serious situation here, no matter if the racists speak up or not.
Enjoyed your post.....

I'm not a racist....or am I in denial..?????
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
I'm not a racist....or am I in denial..?????
If you're not a racist, you're probably a thinly-veiled racist...and if you're in denial, you're probably a DELUSIONAL thinly-veiled racist....
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Old 07-28-2007, 02:13 AM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,087 posts, read 1,055,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicanGuy View Post
This is, to a great extent, because there are many who do express racist and xenophobic attitudes when making their case against illegal immigration; and, there are also many who express racist and xenophobic attitudes when making their case in favor of illegal immigration.
If you are a Mexican guy then you must know Mexicans are totally racist against other Mexicans. North-South Border brothers, Vatos (sp?), etc. I worked with many mexicans. They said the racisim within the mexican culture was much more intense then what any white guy does.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Cuernavaca, Mexico
180 posts, read 89,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citigirl View Post
If you are a Mexican guy then you must know Mexicans are totally racist against other Mexicans. North-South Border brothers, Vatos (sp?), etc. I worked with many mexicans. They said the racisim within the mexican culture was much more intense then what any white guy does.
Unfortunately, that’s true. I don’t know if there’s more racism in Mexico than in the United States; I do know that racism in the United States is more upfront, while racism in Mexico is more veiled.
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:38 AM
 
25,485 posts, read 23,323,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Sad, racism will never die till the card is put into the shredder.
Racism is a word that has completely been taken to the complete oposite end of the spectrum for a point to be made...that's all it is...or, perhaps political correct is it's cousin...

Here's a senerio...Al Sharpton, is a dangerous man...In Atlanta, a black prostitute is shot by a white cop...the cop was arresting her, and she starts stabbing him...over and over, the, white cop shoots her, and Al Sharpton runs down to Atlanta to protest calling the white cop a racist. Now, the white cop, had been a black cop, nothing would have been said.

Someone asked me at work, what I was going to do for my holiday? I said, oh how I love Christmas, I ususally take of 1 or 2 weeks and go somewhere, away from the hustle and bustle, schedules and everyone else's idea of how I should spend Christmas. The woman got a great big frown on her face...I said, "What?" She said....ohhhhhh, be very careful...we're not allowed to say Christmas anymore, we must say Holiday?????? Well, I told her I refuse...no one is taking my words away from me...Holiday...sheesh...

That to me is racisum and political incorrectness and WE should be throwing this right Back in their faces...this is wrong, wrong, wrong...and a perfect example of people using these words to suit their own meaning.

A racist is someone who takes a person of another culture and makes life miserable for them, or even worse kills them...there are less racists in the U.S. then ever before, why, b/c they fear being called a racists for their opinions of wanting the law to be recognized when it comes to ILLEGAL immigration...

What is happening here, is our total way of expressing is being taken away.

Last week, Walt Disney annouced, they are not going to make another movie with another person in their movies smoking?????????????????? So what?
How ridiculous....and I don't want to get into the smoking issue in this thread..but our rights are being taken away, our ways of talking and communicating...oh, if I mention that I want illegals to be put back into their own country and come back under a monitored law until they become citizens...well, I must be a racist....

This is what Lamm means...and is what is happening..and has already happened...he is not a racist, he is simply showing how our rights are being dwindled away...
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Old 07-29-2007, 09:02 AM
 
32 posts, read 90,021 times
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I was cruising through what used to be a beautiful town in southern PA yesterday. I couldn't wait to get back there, what I remembered as a kid was beautiful farms, main street, peace and solitude. Wow, what a shocker, it's all been replaced by Mexican gangs, grocery/liquor stores, loud music playing, shanty homes in town. What the hell is going on in this country??? Part of me wants to retreat to the backwoods of Maine, yet part of me wants to stay and join hands with legalized citizens to address this problem!!! I want my country back!!!!
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Old 07-29-2007, 09:21 AM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,087 posts, read 1,055,885 times
Reputation: 382
You can go to any predominately black (Detroit) or mexican (Del Paso Heights in Sacramento) city or neighborhood and make your own decissions. It's not racist it realist.
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