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Old 03-10-2011, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eelezah1288 View Post
They don't care about amnesty or citizenship. All they want is a green card. $2500 fine is amnesty. They pay more than that to get here. And the fine may never get paid. What about the ones who do not quality for green card? Are they going to be rounded up and deported? I don't think so.
You are absolutely correct, with one exception. Although most only want to remain in this country, and have no desire whatsoever for citizenship, they cannot gain legal status without first being pardoned (amnestied) for violating our laws.
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:13 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,085,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eelezah1288 View Post
They don't care about amnesty or citizenship. All they want is a green card. $2500 fine is amnesty. They pay more than that to get here. And the fine may never get paid. What about the ones who do not quality for green card? Are they going to be rounded up and deported? I don't think so.
Your generalzation is a moot point...because no Utah bill offers amnesty.

Therefore citizenship through naturalization can not be obtained; permenant residency status can not granted; nor is absolution of prior infractions. If the work permit is recended, they do not retain legal status to remain in the US.
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
Your generalzation is a moot point...because no Utah bill offers amnesty.

Therefore citizenship through naturalization can not be obtained; permenant residency status can not granted; nor is absolution of prior infractions. If the work permit is recended, they do not retain legal status to remain in the US.
Sorry, but it is precisely AMNESTY. How can illegals be legalized if not first “absolved” of their federal immigration violations? Would you care to explain that?
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:19 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Sorry, but it is precisely AMNESTY. How can illegals be legalized if not first “absolved” of their federal immigration violations? Would you care to explain that?
Through federal immigration law waivers...as the bill states, Utah will need to seek those from the feredal government to allow aplicants to work. Their "legalization" is only valid for the time they hold the work permit...no absolution is granted.
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
Through federal immigration law waivers...as the bill states, Utah will need to seek those from the feredal government to allow aplicants to work. Their "legalization" is only valid for the time they hold the work permit...no absolution is granted.
Again, they can ONLY have their ILLEGAL status changed to LEGAL through AMNESTY. They are here in violation of federal immigration laws. In addition, at a minimum, guilty of SSN fraud and/or ID theft. I have already explained the definition of amnesty ad nauseam. I repeat, amnesty is a pardon/forgiveness/absolution/reprieve. Why is this so incredibly difficult for you to grasp? Furthermore, the extent of their “legalization” is irrelevant -- be it 2 months, 2 years, or indefinite.
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:10 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Again, they can ONLY have their ILLEGAL status changed to LEGAL through AMNESTY. They are here in violation of federal immigration laws. In addition, at a minimum, guilty of SSN fraud and/or ID theft. I have already explained the definition of amnesty ad nauseam. I repeat, amnesty is a pardon/forgiveness/absolution/reprieve. Why is this so incredibly difficult for you to grasp? Furthermore, the extent of their “legalization” is irrelevant -- be it 2 months, 2 years, or indefinite.

Again, they can ONLY have their ILLEGAL status changed to LEGAL through AMNESTY.

Utah is seeking to do so through waivers from the Feredal government...I am not proposing they do that. The Utah SB 166 does. Whether you or I believe if that is legal...is ultimately up to the courts.





I have already explained the definition of amnesty ad nauseam...
difficult for you to grasp

I understand the definition of Amnesty. Whether I or you understand the meaning of the term, does not change the fact that Utah SB 166 does not offer any form of amnesty.

I, have also asked you, to cite any Utah bill, that states in its bill, that amnesty...to your definition, is being proposed. You have yet to do that.

I have used passages from actual currwnt Utah bills as base to my contentions.

You have, on the other hand, have stated and re-stated your beliefs with no supporting documentation. none.

I will let the actual current Utah laws and actual current proposed Utah bills speak for themselves...
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,946,003 times
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It seems the advocates for illegals are upset that only the enforcement provisions of recent Utah legislation actually have any legal standing...........this article makes interesting reading

Quote:
So what, then, do these permits accomplish? They lull the immigrants into a false sense of security leading to their removal from the United States. If these permits are issued, then HB116 is nothing more than a veiled use of trickery to deport individuals and families.
False hope on road to deportation | The Salt Lake Tribune#
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Old 03-11-2011, 06:29 PM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
It seems the advocates for illegals are upset that only the enforcement provisions of recent Utah legislation actually have any legal standing...........this article makes interesting reading



False hope on road to deportation | The Salt Lake Tribune#
simple. the bill is not amnesty...it is a work permit. A permit to work in the state of Utah.



Quote:
It is curious that so much time, effort and money have been put into this bill when these work permits will have no legal effect.

They will not allow re-entry into the U.S. at the border or port of entry, prevent an Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent from arresting and detaining someone or stop an immigration judge from deporting a permit holder.


So what, then, do these permits accomplish? They lull the immigrants into a false sense of security leading to their removal from the United States. If these permits are issued, then HB116 is nothing more than a veiled use of trickery to deport individuals and families.
allows undocumented workers to work in Utah. plain and simple
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
[b][color=#ff0000]Utah is seeking to do so through waivers from the Feredal government...I am not proposing they do that. The Utah SB 166 does. Whether you or I believe if that is legal...is ultimately up to the courts.



I understand the definition of Amnesty. Whether I or you understand the meaning of the term, does not change the fact that Utah SB 166 does not offer any form of amnesty.

I, have also asked you, to cite any Utah bill, that states in its bill, that amnesty...to your definition, is being proposed. You have yet to do that.

I have used passages from actual currwnt Utah bills as base to my contentions.

You have, on the other hand, have stated and re-stated your beliefs with no supporting documentation. none.

I will let the actual current Utah laws and actual current proposed Utah bills speak for themselves...
I can think of no good reason to continue this discussion. Clearly, you refuse to acknowledge the amnesty provision in this bill. No, you will not see the word “amnesty.” Nevertheless, a bill which purports to legalize the immigration status of illegal aliens, without imposing the requisite penalties according to federal immigration law, is in fact absolving them of guilt for all punishable offenses.

They will not be apprehended, prosecuted for tax evasion, investigated for SSN fraud/theft, deported, banned for 10 years, or subject to any punitive measure. You can call dog mess “cake” if you like, it won’t change the fact that it’s a pile of s***.
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Old 03-12-2011, 11:16 AM
 
1,150 posts, read 990,803 times
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You can call them undocumneted immigrants, or illegal aliens, they still broke the law, and whether you call it a waiver, or amnesty, it still absolves them of their crimes.
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