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Old 07-26-2007, 02:49 PM
JD. JD. started this thread
 
Location: Oklahoma
198 posts, read 433,912 times
Reputation: 130

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Good news on the immigration front. It passed by an easy 89-1. Bumbling idiot George Voinovich was the only Senator to vote 'No'.

It's a great start, some of those provisions look very useful.

The article is from Senator Cornyn's website: .: United States Senator John Cornyn, Texas :: For The Press :. (http://cornyn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ForPress.NewsReleases&Content Record_id=038fc532-802a-23ad-49fd-81962ef09a50 - broken link)

WASHINGTON—In an overwhelming vote, the U.S. Senate today passed an amendment offered by Senate Republicans to the Department of Homeland Security Appropriations bill which would provide $3 billion in emergency funding for border security. Importantly, the amendment also includes a provision drafted by U.S. Sen. John Cornyn to allow this money to be used for enforcing America’s immigration laws, including electronic employment verification improvements and the increased removal and detention of visa overstays.

Sen. Cornyn, the top Republican on the Immigration, Border Security and Refugees subcommittee, said, “Addressing the problem of illegal immigration shouldn’t stop at our borders. We need to restore the confidence of the American people that the federal government is committed to enforcing our immigration laws. This funding will not only put more boots on the ground at our borders but it will also provide additional resources for law enforcement to remove dangerous felons who are here illegally. This is an important, bipartisan step forward to strengthening America’s security. I’m pleased my colleagues in both parties agreed to this important amendment.”

The amendment would provide emergency funding of $3 billion for:

Hiring 500 more Customs & Border Protection (CBP) officers per year (FY08-12), 1200 more Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents per year, 200 investigators to combat aliens smuggling, 50 Deputy U.S. Marshals;
23,000 Border Patrol agents hired, trained, and reporting for duty;

4 Unmanned Aerial Vehicles & 105 ground-based radar and camera towers;

A permanent end to the “catch-and-release” policy with 45,000 detention beds;

Operational control over 100% of the U.S.-Mexico land border;

To allow DHS to present a photo electronically to an employer so that the employer may confirm the identity of the individual when he presents ID;

To require mandatory detention of aliens who overstay their visa by 60 days;

To reimburse local governments that choose to cooperate with ICE in enforcing the immigration laws (INA 287g).
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:54 PM
 
2,775 posts, read 2,588,712 times
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3 Billion dollars to do this? Does that seem excessive to anyone else? That's 3,000 Million dollars... wow, that seems like a whole lot of tax dollars!
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Old 07-26-2007, 03:09 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,008,811 times
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We spend that in about a day and a half in Iraq. The Senate can do much better than that when it concerns our national security.
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Old 07-26-2007, 03:16 PM
 
763 posts, read 1,294,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuszu View Post
3 Billion dollars to do this? Does that seem excessive to anyone else? That's 3,000 Million dollars... wow, that seems like a whole lot of tax dollars!
Peanuts in comparison to the daily revenue spent in Iraq and Afghanistan. We should spend more if it's needed for border security, in my humble opinion.

If ever there could be a non-partisan issue of the highest importance for the future of America, this is it. I'm against the overuse of taxes to accomplish a wide variety of purposes, but I'm never against taxes for protecting our borders. RAISE THEM and secure the borders! ALL OF THEM! And then give us back the tax increase many times over by getting out of Iraq (different subject, never mind; it was merely a comment regarding tax uses).
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Old 07-26-2007, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,699,138 times
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Good, on the whole. Bad in some aspects.

I'm pro-immigration/immigrants, but we need secure borders.

Now, let's legalize the illegals who are already here and jack up the immigration quotas to something reasonable--in the hundreds of thousands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD. View Post
The amendment would provide emergency funding of $3 billion for:

Hiring 500 more Customs & Border Protection (CBP) officers per year (FY08-12), 1200 more Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents per year, 200 investigators to combat aliens smuggling, 50 Deputy U.S. Marshals;
23,000 Border Patrol agents hired, trained, and reporting for duty;
Good.

Quote:
4 Unmanned Aerial Vehicles & 105 ground-based radar and camera towers;

A permanent end to the “catch-and-release” policy with 45,000 detention beds;
Good. Make sure it's adequately upkept and that detainees are treated humanely.

Quote:
Operational control over 100% of the U.S.-Mexico land border;
Good. About time. What about Canada?

Quote:
To allow DHS to present a photo electronically to an employer so that the employer may confirm the identity of the individual when he presents ID;
BAD! The last thing we need is DHS tracking our employment!

Quote:
To require mandatory detention of aliens who overstay their visa by 60 days;
BAD! BAD! BAD!! The law is unclear on visa overstays, unlike crossing the border without inspection! What are we, Indonesia, to detain visitors because they overstayed their visa? They're already subject to intense screening when they enter the country! This is going to be terrible for tourism! Plus, it's unenforcable! The only people who will be hurt by this are the ones who follow the rules and report their location to USCIS.

Also, why are we educating people, then forcing them to return overseas to compete for our jobs and start businesses outside the country!?? That's just insane! Automatic work visas (and green cards) for anyone who completes a BA, BS, MS, or any "real" degree at an accredited university! It is so stupid to educate, say, an engineer here, then send him back to China to build ICBMs pointed at us!

Quote:
To reimburse local governments that choose to cooperate with ICE in enforcing the immigration laws (INA 287g).
Good.
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:00 PM
 
763 posts, read 1,294,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
Now, let's legalize the illegals who are already here and jack up the immigration quotas to something reasonable--in the hundreds of thousands.
No immigration for 5 years is my wish. We have a lot of assimilation to do and an enormous amount of analyzing, planning, preparing, and on and on with the population we already have. Unless you believe in this North American Union monstrosity, our resources are going to be stretched.

No, we need to become a manufacturing machine exporting goods and services to bring capital IN. We don’t need to continually re-circulate it for the skimming-off-the-top pleasure of the plutocracy that is fortified and fed by ever more immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
BAD! BAD! BAD!! The law is unclear on visa overstays, unlike crossing the border without inspection! What are we, Indonesia, to detain visitors because they overstayed their visa? They're already subject to intense screening when they enter the country! This is going to be terrible for tourism! Plus, it's unenforcable! The only people who will be hurt by this are the ones who follow the rules and report their location to USCIS.
You may not like the detention recommendations of this legislation, but there has to be some sort of deterrent for employers and employees scamming the system. Do you have any suggestions?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
Also, why are we educating people, then forcing them to return overseas to compete for our jobs and start businesses outside the country!?? That's just insane! Automatic work visas (and green cards) for anyone who completes a BA, BS, MS, or any "real" degree at an accredited university! It is so stupid to educate, say, an engineer here, then send him back to China to build ICBMs pointed at us!
Excellent point!
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:16 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,008,811 times
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At a minimum, we should shut the door and end all legal and illegal immigration for at least a generation or two. Once we get a handle on things then open the door slightly to only the people who can contribute to American society, and never to anyone who would take a job an American can do.

To this end we need to pull every single troop out of the middle-east and secure the border with the US Army, and use the military to root out all illegals in the nation, city by city, state by state. Then use RICO type laws to seize their assets. We also need a national hotline to report illegal aliens, and anyone who reports an illegal should get half the illegals property that is seized. People that promote or enable illegal aliens, like members of la raza, should be imprisoned for criminal conspiracy.

Finally Congress should pass and the President should sign a formal Declaration of War against Mexico. They have invaded this nation to the tune of 20 to 30 million people and we should seize the Mexican oil fields in the Gulf of Mexico for reparations.
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:23 PM
 
763 posts, read 1,294,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
At a minimum, we should shut the door and end all legal and illegal immigration for at least a generation or two. Once we get a handle on things then open the door slightly to only the people who can contribute to American society, and never to anyone who would take a job an American can do.

To this end we need to pull every single troop out of the middle-east and secure the border with the US Army, and use the military to root out all illegals in the nation, city by city, state by state. Then use RICO type laws to seize their assets. We also need a national hotline to report illegal aliens, and anyone who reports an illegal should get half the illegals property that is seized. People that promote or enable illegal aliens, like members of la raza, should be imprisoned for criminal conspiracy.

Finally Congress should pass and the President should sign a formal Declaration of War against Mexico. They have invaded this nation to the tune of 20 to 30 million people and we should seize the Mexican oil fields in the Gulf of Mexico for reparations.
Don't beat around the Bush! How do feel about immigration?

My tendencies are in the direction of yours. I'm extremely concerned with what may be in our futures in large part because of population problems, especially caused by immigration. However, there are so many downsides to the extremes that could be employed as you suggest. I do admit to the temptations however.
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:42 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,625,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happyappy View Post
Don't beat around the Bush! How do feel about immigration?

My tendencies are in the direction of yours. I'm extremely concerned with what may be in our futures in large part because of population problems, especially caused by immigration. However, there are so many downsides to the extremes that could be employed as you suggest. I do admit to the temptations however.
Good point--however, I think we're all being patient here, and those who are reluctant to go to the extremes proposed in "The Hawkeye Solution", of course, are free to modify it with their own, gentler version. We'd better consider SOME course of action, or the "Hawkeye Solution" may be adopted by default....
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Old 07-26-2007, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,699,138 times
Reputation: 2977
Quote:
No immigration for 5 years is my wish. We have a lot of assimilation to do and an enormous amount of analyzing, planning, preparing, and on and on with the population we already have. Unless you believe in this North American Union monstrosity, our resources are going to be stretched.

No, we need to become a manufacturing machine exporting goods and services to bring capital IN. We don’t need to continually re-circulate it for the skimming-off-the-top pleasure of the plutocracy that is fortified and fed by ever more immigrants.
Like it or not, we have an economic model based on constant expansion. Expanding economies need more laborers. Without immigration, our economy will stagnate, so unless you want to see a 5-year depression, you'd better get everyone in the USA to start having 3+ kids (Currently ~2.2) or allow immigration.

I don't really understand your second paragraph. I agree that our manufacturing sector need revitalization. I think the ingenuity of foreign-born USA-educated graduates would help us immensely if we'd let more than 65,000 of them stay each year, instead of sending them back to China and India to build better widgets there and export them to us here.

Quote:
You may not like the detention recommendations of this legislation, but there has to be some sort of deterrent for employers and employees scamming the system. Do you have any suggestions?
Visa overstays are mostly tourists and college grads. The screening process for tourists is pretty intense already and filters out most people who apply for a tourist visa with the intent of immigrating "unlawfully" (With inspection at the border--rather than illegally, without inspection). Tourists who overstay more than 6 months are barred from re-entry to the US for 3 years. Overstay more than a year and you can't come back for 10 years. This means they can't visit their home country (because they'd be barred from re-entering the US after they left) and deterrs a lot of would-be immigrants.

And I think everyone with a real degree from an accredited university should be allowed to start on the path to citizenship. This would be a huge plus for the education level of our populace. They should be allowed to "compete" with born-here citizens at the same wages as are paid to citizens. Right now, those 65,000 I mentioned are usually not even paid. Companies lucky enough to get one through the system (there are hundreds of thousands of applications, but only the lucky first 65K get in) get highly-educated slave labor for the cost of a few thousand in processing fees to the government. The grads can't complain, because if the company fires them within 2 years, they have to go "home." Even though most establish a productive life here in the United States. After 2 years, they can apply for a green card.

Quote:
To this end we need to pull every single troop out of the middle-east and secure the border with the US Army, and use the military to root out all illegals in the nation, city by city, state by state. Then use RICO type laws to seize their assets. We also need a national hotline to report illegal aliens, and anyone who reports an illegal should get half the illegals property that is seized. People that promote or enable illegal aliens, like members of la raza, should be imprisoned for criminal conspiracy.
Who will pick the vegetables? Who will roof the houses? Illegal immigrants make up between 4 and 7% of the population. Most are gainfully employed. Unemployment is at about 5%, which is recognized as near the minimum possible in any modern society. If you decrease the population by 4%, where will you get the labor to do those jobs?

Most of your suggestion is unconstitutional anyway. You've got a lot of amendments to propose, and a lot of the Bill of Rights to strike out.
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