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Old 12-23-2015, 06:24 AM
 
Location: the Sticks
6,730 posts, read 1,897,245 times
Reputation: 3418

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
It's all just one world with man-made divisions.

Why shouldn't countries that are dripping with affluence take in people from countries where people are being slaughtered and fear for their lives, like in syria? I agree that affluent Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia should be taking in more Syrians for example. But this is a land of abundance (compared to much of the world)---there is no reason to become isolationist and close our borders to people in need.
There is every reason to protect what we have by limiting who we share it with. I have no desire to see this nation become over crowded with people requiring federal assistance to survive. We produce enough of those on our own. Quite honestly we don't owe it to anyone to lower our standards or sacrifice our standards so that they might have a better life. We do however, owe it to our own needy to see to their needs first.

 
Old 12-23-2015, 07:08 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
It's all just one world with man-made divisions.

Why shouldn't countries that are dripping with affluence take in people from countries where people are being slaughtered and fear for their lives, like in syria? I agree that affluent Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia should be taking in more Syrians for example. But this is a land of abundance (compared to much of the world)---there is no reason to become isolationist and close our borders to people in need.
ALL cultures and countries have divisions; why should the US do things different?
 
Old 12-23-2015, 07:12 AM
 
26,163 posts, read 14,457,966 times
Reputation: 17235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1
I just moved from there. I like Joe, he is about the only one there trying to do anything about the problems. We had to get out, such a mess.
I wonder how long his efforts will continue?? (I dont think it will stop them all)
 
Old 12-23-2015, 08:02 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
It's all just one world with man-made divisions.

Why shouldn't countries that are dripping with affluence take in people from countries where people are being slaughtered and fear for their lives, like in syria? I agree that affluent Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia should be taking in more Syrians for example. But this is a land of abundance (compared to much of the world)---there is no reason to become isolationist and close our borders to people in need.

No, we are not a land of abundance anymore. We have a shortage of jobs and resources and are trillions in debt with our population growing by leaps and bounds. How are we isolationists? We do take in refugees and we allow in 1 million legal immigrants a year. We can only do so much though. We have to consider our own citizen's needs. There is no plan to close the border. There will always be legal ports of entry. It's time Mexico and some other countries started to take care of their own citizens. We can't be the flop house and employment agency to the whole world.
 
Old 12-23-2015, 08:06 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
There is every reason to protect what we have by limiting who we share it with. I have no desire to see this nation become over crowded with people requiring federal assistance to survive. We produce enough of those on our own. Quite honestly we don't owe it to anyone to lower our standards or sacrifice our standards so that they might have a better life. We do however, owe it to our own needy to see to their needs first.

Agreed, and I am opposed to bringing people here who's culture is incompatible with ours.
 
Old 12-23-2015, 08:18 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Find a group you don't like. De-humanize, stereotype and stigmatize them with evil qualities and blame them for all the ills of society and the economy. Never actually get to know them or find out what they are really doing in your country, or what horrible things in their own country they are escaping from. Refuse to believe that most likely they are just like you, trying to do the best they can for themselves and their families, only having the bad luck of being born in and starting out in bedeviled countries like the Honduras where families live in sewage-infested shacks on streets controlled by the deadliest drug cartels in the world. Hate them. Never befriend one. Discriminate against them. Don't provide them a leg up. No empathy. No compassion. Pat yourself on the back for being a good patriot and a proud good Christian and go to church on Sunday to pray about brotherly love (just not for those brothers, right?)

You do realize, that in Florida or in California, if illegal immigrants suddenly disappeared the agricultural industry in those states would simply collapse? Even Ben Carson has alluded to this. As well as probably the vast majority of roofing companies, construction, hotel cleaning services, restaurants (the stinky dirty jobs back in the kitchen), and any other stinky service industry that most americans turn their noses up at working at?

Who's this group or groups we supposedly don't like? Should we continue to put up with illegal aliens and allow people in here who's culture isn't compatible with ours and could pose a security risk? I don't think so! If foreigners are coming here and living off our taxes we shouldn't object? No one has said that they are to blame for "all" of the ills of our society but they certainly are a contributing factor. Why have families you are unable to feed in your own country in the first place? I don't know where you are getting the notion that we aren't a compassionate country or that we hate anyone. We are the most generous country in the world. I suggest you get off your sanctimonious rant.


There are unlimited visas for legal, foreign agricultural workers so why would we need illegal aliens to do those jobs? We don't! It is merely some greedy growers who hire them to increase their profits. Only 2% of illegals are ag workers anyway. The rest are doing jobs that Americans have always done. Americans don't do construction and all the other blue collared jobs you mentioned? Since when? Who do you think did them before the flood of illegal aliens came here willing to do them for less? I don't know if you are really that ill-informed on this issue or you have a personal agenda but we've heard all of this nonsense in here many times before.
 
Old 12-23-2015, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,062,995 times
Reputation: 18141
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Find a group you don't like. De-humanize, stereotype and stigmatize them with evil qualities and blame them for all the ills of society and the economy. Never actually get to know them or find out what they are really doing in your country, or what horrible things in their own country they are escaping from. Refuse to believe that most likely they are just like you, trying to do the best they can for themselves and their families, only having the bad luck of being born in and starting out in bedeviled countries like the Honduras where families live in sewage-infested shacks on streets controlled by the deadliest drug cartels in the world. Hate them. Never befriend one. Discriminate against them. Don't provide them a leg up. No empathy. No compassion. Pat yourself on the back for being a good patriot and a proud good Christian and go to church on Sunday to pray about brotherly love (just not for those brothers, right?)

You do realize, that in Florida or in California, if illegal immigrants suddenly disappeared the agricultural industry in those states would simply collapse? Even Ben Carson has alluded to this. As well as probably the vast majority of roofing companies, construction, hotel cleaning services, restaurants (the stinky dirty jobs back in the kitchen), and any other stinky service industry that most americans turn their noses up at working at?
We support the immigration and all other laws of the United States of America, OUR country.

Now, to debunk you myths and I swear, I don't know how many times I'll have to explain this to people but:

Phony Farm Labor Shortage: We Need to Talk About It

Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices | The Seattle Times

The Myth of Illegal Immigration and Food Prices | San Diego Reader

https://www.numbersusa.org/pages/jobs-americans-wont-do

Welfare Use by Legal and Illegal Immigrant Households | Center for Immigration Studies

Illegal, but Not Undocumented | Center for Immigration Studies

https://www.numbersusa.com/problems/taxpayer-burden

Sanctuary Cities -- Illegal Immigration Victims Speak | National Review Online

Are There Really Jobs Americans Won

Victims of Illegal Aliens Memorial

And in my state and this was 2010 and more have came in and added to their "litter" of anchor babies for cash: Study: Illegal Immigrants Cost Kansas Taxpayers $442 million - Watchdog.org

And a new source I found: http://cis.org/north/why-illegal-ali...-will-not-help

Carson has said if "needed" and that they would get a work visa and never be allowed to become a citizen, NEVER or to vote. Do you need a link for that? He also, like others believes that cutting the benefits and they'll go home. I used the scenario with my neighbors feeding a stray cat. They started feeding one and every other one came into the neighborhood. They quit putting out the food and the cats went away. We have enough US citizens mooching off of us and benefits being cut for our own citizens even the disabled and elderly. Mental health under Medicaid is almost non-existent. Our homeless citizens grow and children living in poverty is skyrocketing. Pull the illegals off the public assistance teat and enforce workplace laws against hiring people in the US illegally. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-cutting-bene/

Did I miss anything?

Last edited by AnywhereElse; 12-23-2015 at 08:35 AM..
 
Old 12-23-2015, 12:33 PM
 
14 posts, read 5,845 times
Reputation: 15
Throw all the problems of society upon a single group, it is a common good populist tactic to meet the average citizen, usually a person with little critical thinking.

Someone up there posted the expenditure that the state has with illegal, but conveniently not posted the earnings. Earnings that often do not return to them, as also posted up there, just some few walfare programs are available for them, and other HUGE benefits of our modern society are note, like access to police and other public services, because they have fear. Not to mention the expenditure that the government has with the education of every citizen (100k per child, search on Google), while with the immigrant this, of course, not happen, they get a beautiful manpower for free that another country has invested money in it.
 
Old 12-23-2015, 12:35 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by matsumok View Post
Throw all the problems of society upon a single group, it is a common good populist tactic to meet the average citizen, usually a person with little critical thinking.

Someone up there posted the expenditure that the state has with illegal, but conveniently not posted the earnings. Earnings that often do not return to them, as also posted up there, just some few walfare programs are available for them, and other HUGE benefits of our modern society are note, like access to police and other public services, because they have fear. Not to mention the expenditure that the government has with the education of every citizen (100k per child, search on Google), while with the immigrant this, of course, not happen, they get a beautiful manpower for free that another country has invested money in it.
Uh; MOST of us still DON'T want illegal aliens in the US because their kind DO push wages DOWN.
 
Old 12-23-2015, 01:34 PM
 
14 posts, read 5,845 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Uh; MOST of us still DON'T want illegal aliens in the US because their kind DO push wages DOWN.

5 Myths about immigration

"It's true that an influx of new workers pushes wages down, but immigration also stimulates growth by creating new consumers, entrepreneurs and investors. As a result of this growth, economists estimate that wages for the vast majority of American workers are slightly higher than they would be without immigration."

Interesting: "U.S. workers WITHOUT A HIGH SCHOOL DEGREE experience wage declines as a result of competition from immigrants, but these losses are modest, at just over 1 percent. Economists also estimate that for each job an immigrant fills, an additional job is created."

---- Man, for a business owner choose an illegal immigrant who can not speak English, have little schooling, came from an underdeveloped country, and also they risk getting a penalty, mannn, I guess the problem ir you(somebody), not the immigrant, and I don't believe that the economy that he will make paying lower wages compensates all this, the problem is clearly another...



https://www.aclu.org/immigration-myths-and-facts

Washington Times Pushes Myth That Immigrants Steal Jobs From African-Americans | Blog | Media Matters for America

Myths and migration | The Economist


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