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Old 08-01-2007, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,689,364 times
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Fair enough.

There's no reason you can't regulate state-run or federally-funded Universities to not educate foreigners. After all, they didn't pay the taxes that go to the schools.

What do you think about Private Universities? Should they be required by law to admit US Citizens before foreigners? They don't recieve direct subsidies, but they do benefit from the infrastructure maintained by the government.

What about an additional fee to compensate for the admittance of foreigners and to cut back on the number of international students who can afford to go to school in the United States?

Regarding your ideas; I agree that educating only Americans is better than educating foreigners and sending them home. I think educating the most talented students and then encouraging them to stay in the country is the optimal solution.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:26 PM
MB2
 
Location: Sebastian/ FL
3,496 posts, read 8,565,550 times
Reputation: 2688
Default Wow....coming to think of it....

Ooooooopppppssss.......I was here illegal, for a short period of time, because of an "over stayed" visa......

But, I know better now, it was an error, and I still know the right and wrong.

I came to the US in late 1990, to visit the father of my son (I am German, he is American), on a visitors visa, which was good for 3 months back then.
We ended up getting married in the meantime.
Several months later, I called the Immigration Consulate in NY, to find out, what I had to do in order to be allowed to work, telling them my circumstances. (Thinking, that I was legal at the time, because I was married to a US citizen)
They referred me to call Philadelphia (I lived in Pennsylvania), and talk to them, which I did, and they send me papers. (They knew my "story", but never addressed the fact to me, that I am illegal at that point!)

I had to call them again, because I had problems filling out the papers....only to find out and be told (THIS TIME....FINALLY!), that at that point in time I was indeed ALREADY here in this country ILLEGAL.
Apparently WAS a law in effect, way back when, when a foreigner marries a US Citizen, that they would automatically become legal here as well.
But, they got away with that law a long, long time ago, since so many people abused it.
Even though I was married, I STILL had to apply for my green card.
Since it was so difficult, and would have been so much more expensive for me to obtain one here, I chose to return back to Germany, since that was the place where I had all my papers etc.
I went back (took my son as well...he was 2 at the time), started the process, it took over 11 months (a newly wed and already apart from my then husband and father of my son), numerous trips and 2 interviews at the Consulate in Frankfurt...and had to pay approx. $650 back then.

I was misinformed by Consulate workers, and if I didn't call THEM to find out on how to be employed as a foreigner...I would maybe still be here...illegal.
Now, the best of the story, and to show on how "faulty" this system really was already back in 1990....I obtained my SS card, AND, drivers license!!!!

So, the points I am trying to make here are several....First, maybe the workers at the Immigration places should have been or be better trained, so you can really believe what they are saying to be true, and them knowing on what to do.

Second, I am/ was an average "Joe schmo", married with a young child and without bad intentions, ending up being here in the USA illegal because of a mistake and being misinformed.....Could you imagine....... I could have been a terrorist!

Another case, which happened several years ago to a friend of mine. She is a German Citizen, married to a US soldier.
He ended up getting stationed in Louisiana, and Alaska after that. The US Army was supposed to take care of the legal Immigration/ Green Card paperwork for her, since his stay in Germany was not extended.
She received a certified letter (AFTER being here in the US for better then a year), that she would have to leave the US by such and such date, or they would come with force, and deport physically deport her!
Comes to find out, that the US Army "lost" her paperwork, and never turned it in, or filed it!!!
So, she was here ILLEGAL at that time as well.....
The US Government/ Immigration was on her case like a flie on a piece of doo-doo.
(BTW....It was corrected, just in the nick of time)

Now, fast forward up to today....Illegals are coming in by the droves, and right in front of the noses of our government....and they are doing.......NOTHING, but giving them excuses and rights, benefits and extensions, trying to tell us it's okay for them to come...blah blah blah blah blah......
I have to smirk and laugh at the situation now unfolding, because I remember the time when the word "illegal" REALLY meant illegal....no ands, ifs or buts about it!
Or, they shipped us back to where we came from, never to re-enter the US again.

Boy, has the world changed, and I feel like I am in a twilight zone right now.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Prison!
913 posts, read 2,831,548 times
Reputation: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
Fair enough.

There's no reason you can't regulate state-run or federally-funded Universities to not educate foreigners. After all, they didn't pay the taxes that go to the schools.

What do you think about Private Universities? Should they be required by law to admit US Citizens before foreigners? They don't recieve direct subsidies, but they do benefit from the infrastructure maintained by the government.

What about an additional fee to compensate for the admittance of foreigners and to cut back on the number of international students who can afford to go to school in the United States?

Regarding your ideas; I agree that educating only Americans is better than educating foreigners and sending them home. I think educating the most talented students and then encouraging them to stay in the country is the optimal solution.

I dont think educating Americans only is better. Isolation is bad just because you are not bringing new ideas into it.
American kids has every right to get enrolled to college, paying instate tuition fees and so on. But the college could not just bend the rules..lower the standard of admission just because they are citizens... If they failed to take advantage of their education, expect to be spoon fed? who to be blame but themselves....I believed school admission shouldnt be based on anything like race, color, country of origin but grades..after all they are all paying out of state tuition fees anyway.....school are in to make $$..after all they are paying 10$ mil to a basketball coach..them money gotta come from somewhere ...definately not state money
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Occupied Territory
354 posts, read 225,004 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
College admissions should be targeted towards Americans, without regards to race, sex or ethnic background. I would however support an Affirmative Action type program that was based on need. As long as it was implemented fairly across the board.
If race or ethnicity were not taken into account then I would also be all for what you posted. I am also against any and all illegals being allowed to even be in any of our colleges and I don't care if they were raised in this country or not. Illegal should equal no college and only deportation. They can blame their parents for soing to them what they did and not us or our country.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,689,364 times
Reputation: 2977
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingBack2PA View Post
Several months later, I called the Immigration Consulate in NY, to find out, what I had to do in order to be allowed to work, telling them my circumstances. (Thinking, that I was legal at the time, because I was married to a US citizen)
Big mistake. DO NOT depend on the USCIS for ANYTHING, especially immigration advice! A better bet would've been to hire an immigration lawyer immediately. Or, if your reading comprehension is good you could skip the $2500 in legal fees and shell out $23 for a book on how to become a US citizen if you are married to a US citizen.

Quote:
Even though I was married, I STILL had to apply for my green card.
Not only that, but you will have to convince hostile USCIS workers that you really do love your husband and wait 2 years on a "conditional" green card before you can move on and try to become a citizen.

Quote:
Since it was so difficult, and would have been so much more expensive for me to obtain one here, I chose to return back to Germany, since that was the place where I had all my papers etc. I went back (took my son as well...he was 2 at the time), started the process, it took over 11 months (a newly wed and already apart from my then husband and father of my son), numerous trips and 2 interviews at the Consulate in Frankfurt...and had to pay approx. $650 back then.
HUGE mistake! You're lucky you didn't overstay by more than six months (and you're lucky the customs officer could count), or it would've been 3-to-10 YEARS before you could've been with your husband again.

The smart thing to do would've been to apply for your green card while staying in the United States. Then you could've stayed with your husband instead of being separated for a year. But, of course, USCIS isn't going to tell you that. Their job is to keep foreigners out, not act like human beings.

Quote:
I was misinformed by Consulate workers, and if I didn't call THEM to find out on how to be employed as a foreigner...I would maybe still be here...illegal.
Now, the best of the story, and to show on how "faulty" this system really was already back in 1990....I obtained my SS card, AND, drivers license!!!!
Sure. There are thousands of people here who are married to US citizens but have not gone through USCIS. They are illegal or overstays without even knowing it.

Quote:
Second, I am/ was an average "Joe schmo", married with a young child and without bad intentions, ending up being here in the USA illegal because of a mistake and being misinformed.....Could you imagine....... I could have been a terrorist!
Welcome to the current immigration system.

Quote:
Now, fast forward up to today....Illegals are coming in by the droves, and right in front of the noses of our government....and they are doing.......NOTHING, but giving them excuses and rights, benefits and extensions, trying to tell us it's okay for them to come...blah blah blah blah blah......
I have to smirk and laugh at the situation now unfolding, because I remember the time when the word "illegal" REALLY meant illegal....no ands, ifs or buts about it!
Or, they shipped us back to where we came from, never to re-enter the US again.
Now hold on a minute! You were given the same excuses, rights, benefits, and extensions as well. You said yourself that you got a driver's liscense and social security# when you were unlawfully in the United States. You were extended the benefits of a citizen when you were an unlawful immigrant. Nobody rounded you up and deported you, though they might have threatened to when you made them aware of your unlawful status by calling them. You voluntarily left because you got bad advice from USCIS and you didn't bother to check with a immigration lawyer or read up on immigration law.

You were treated better illegal immigrants are today. You were also very lucky to be granted a tourist visa to come see your child's father. Today, that sort of request would almost surely be denied to prevent foreigners from doing exactly what you did--come over on a tourist visa, marry a US citizen, and become a permanent resident.

In the current system, a border-crosser who marries a US citizen would have to do the exact same thing you did to get a green card--return to their home country and wait for it. They wouldn't have the option of staying in the United States with their spouse. And now the waits are in terms of years instead of months.

I don't have much opinion on illegal aliens or tourist visas. Immigration needs to be regulated and I am against open borders. At the same time, we need workers who are motivated, smart, and skilled. I see offering residency to foreigners who graduate with advanced degrees as bringing in the smart and skilled. Some sort of labor system needs to be implemented to bring in (fully-paid) low-skill laborers in a legal and controlled manner but that's beyond this discussion.

As for tourist visa overstays/marriages, like the one mentioned by the poster above, I don't have much of an opinion either way. It doesn't add much to the country, nor do I see it as a major threat.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:21 PM
MB2
 
Location: Sebastian/ FL
3,496 posts, read 8,565,550 times
Reputation: 2688
Default To make it short and sweet....

am I so glad, that I don't have to deal with all of that fiasco and the "unknown" today...because I would go ape.

Everything seems to be in such disarray, nobody seems to know on WHAT the hell is going on anymore....The lines sure became really, really blurry!
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,689,364 times
Reputation: 2977
I will agree with that!! SOMETHING needs to be done!

I'm sorry you had a hard time with your green card. I'm glad you got together with your husband and managed to make a life here in the US depsite our labyrinth of immigration laws.
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:29 PM
MB2
 
Location: Sebastian/ FL
3,496 posts, read 8,565,550 times
Reputation: 2688
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
I will agree with that!! SOMETHING needs to be done!

I'm sorry you had a hard time with your green card. I'm glad you got together with your husband and managed to make a life here in the US depsite our labyrinth of immigration laws.
Yes, it was NOT easy.......
But, we followed rules, regulations and laws (after we discovered the mistake), I assimilated myself to the country and culture, started working a full time job (legally) to support and contribute to my family and economy with me paying taxes (just like everyone else does and should), learned english.....and I never, ever ran down the streets, protesting and burning the US (or any) flag....
I don't backstab or bite the hand that feeds me.....never have and never will, and I am thankful for the opportunity to be able to live here in the US!
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,689,364 times
Reputation: 2977
Consider if your circumstances had been different. Say you hadn't made that call to USCIS and you found out you were currently in the country illegally.

Also, assume that you could not stay in the country to get your green card but would have to return to Germany tomorrow. Even though you are married to a US citizen. (As is the case for those who cross the border).

Now, would you follow the law if it said you must uproot yourself, quit your full-time job, pull you son out of school, break up your family, and move back to Germany and wait there for 2-to-4 years (in the best case, and forever in the worst) until your green card was processed?

Or would you peacefully petition the government to allow you to continue living your life here even though you didn't follow the tangle of procedures that you were supposed to?

That the majority of illegal aliens are doing the latter. I live and work with them and I believe they are positively contributing to our country. I believe them when they wave the American flag and say they want to be good and legal citizens. I can see why they want a chance to stay here. I don't see that as backstabbing. But again, we're getting off-topic.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:01 PM
MB2
 
Location: Sebastian/ FL
3,496 posts, read 8,565,550 times
Reputation: 2688
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
That the majority of illegal aliens are doing the latter. I live and work with them and I believe they are positively contributing to our country. I believe them when they wave the American flag and say they want to be good and legal citizens. I can see why they want a chance to stay here. I don't see that as backstabbing. But again, we're getting off-topic.
In a way...yes, we are getting off topic, coming to think of that illegals CAN'T overstay their visas....because they NEVER HAD ONE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Last edited by MB2; 08-01-2007 at 03:02 PM.. Reason: highlighting
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