let's pretend illegals suddenly vanished. who'd want "those kind of jobs"? (illegal immigration, law)

[mkfarnam]

Originally Posted by grimace8

first let me start by saying anyone throwing a false accusation toward me about me being pro-illegals for asking a simple question will be immediately REPORTED. look at some of my comments in the regular politics forum and you'll see that i'm not pro-illegals. i'm serious about the reporting, so seriously, don't even think about it. (i'm thinking of a certain someone who is already "on ignore" anyway but i want her to see this disclaimer so she doesn't waste her time)
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here's the question:

let's pretend illegals suddenly vanished. who'd want "those kind of jobs"? teenage americans of all colors? black american adults? new immigrants from asia? who?

What makes you think that legal citizens wouldn't work these jobs?

Don't say that you weren't thinking that, because if you didn't believe that legal citizens wouldn't do these job's, you wouldn't have started this thread..

[mkfarnam]

Hey everyone...It looks like the OP has Coped out....I'm not surprised.

[chicagonut]

Originally Posted by Benicar

Americans worked “those jobs” prior to the invasion, and they would continue if illegals were gone. It is a myth that illegals are only picking crops or working in fast food restaurants. They’re everywhere.

How true. Construction and landscaping jobs are just two examples. They use to be good paying jobs that an American could make a living at and support his family. The employers have pushed Americans out of them in favor of cheap, illegal labor. Even if an American were willing to work them for a much lower wage than he used to they can't get them anymore because the entire crews are Spanish speakers and there is a language barrier. To avoid conflict and to have a sense of comaraderie among workers, like workers are only hired. The employers discriminate but it is hard to prove it.

[CarolVa1977]

Originally Posted by chicagonut

How true. Construction and landscaping jobs are just two examples. They use to be good paying jobs that an American could make a living at and support his family. The employers have pushed Americans out of them in favor of cheap, illegal labor. Even if an American were willing to work them for a much lower wage than he used to they can't get them anymore because the entire crews are Spanish speakers and there is a language barrier. To avoid conflict and to have a sense of comaraderie among workers, like workers are only hired. The employers discriminate but it is hard to prove it.

This is not true. I am an engineer (hispanic and legally in this country) and I worked for almost 8 years as a project manager for several construction projects (federal commercial and residential). The reason why "like workers" were only hired was like workers were the only ones to apply. Also, with all due respect, said workers just worked hard. A lot of the superintendents and pm's learned spanish (I speak 4 languages so there is not a huge issue for me to learn a new one, but my native tongue is spanish), it has nothing to do with conflict, the bottom line is economics.

When the real estate market was up those workers were attracted here because there was a lot of work. And now there is no work. That is the bottom line. Anyone in construction can tell you that. When the real estate market was up no one was complaining about those workers. There were "amigos". Now they are the enemy.

[chicagonut]

Originally Posted by CarolVa1977

This is not true. I am an engineer (hispanic and legally in this country) and I worked for almost 8 years as a project manager for several construction projects (federal commercial and residential). The reason why "like workers" were only hired was like workers were the only ones to apply. Also, with all due respect, said workers just worked hard. A lot of the superintendents and pm's learned spanish (I speak 4 languages so there is not a huge issue for me to learn a new one, but my native tongue is spanish), it has nothing to do with conflict, the bottom line is economics.

When the real estate market was up those workers were attracted here because there was a lot of work. And now there is no work. That is the bottom line. Anyone in construction can tell you that. When the real estate market was up no one was complaining about those workers. There were "amigos". Now they are the enemy.

No, this was happening way before the economy went bad and the construction industry stagnated. Non-Spanish speaking Americans were being pushed out of that industry mostly because of the availability of Spanish speaking illegal aliens. They would hire Hispanic-Americans to supervise to be able to communicate with these workers.

You can't be serious because since prior to this phenomenom above non-hispanic workers were dominant in the construction industry but all of a sudden they don't want these jobs anymore? If your experience was that they weren't applying it was probably due to knowing they wouldn't get hired due to the scenario I have given you.

[CarolVa1977]

Originally Posted by chicagonut

You can't be serious because since prior to this phenomenom above non-hispanic workers were dominant in the construction industry but all of a sudden they don't want these jobs anymore? If your experience was that they weren't applying it was probably due to knowing they wouldn't get hired due to the scenario I have given you.

There was so much work at that time a lot of these workers came lured by these jobs. I particularly saw many whites and non-whites working together at the time because there was a lot of work. The only reason these men come here is work. Now, I do not advocate for illegal immigration but I find extremelly upsetting the name calling and demonizing words in these boards.

And to be honest with you, hispanics do work harder in my opinion. Let me rephrase that, immigrants normally work harder than natives. Not only in construction but even at my school (graduate school), 95% of the higher grades are held by immigrants like myself. Americans (specially women) complain all the time about how hard graduate school is. I guess that extent to jobs too.

JMO.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by CarolVa1977

I am not saying they do not want to work. As I said in my previos post, natives tend to complain all the time.

I am getting a masters degree (just an example). My teacher has a ph'd (he is an immigrant) kind of like an imminence on his field. We all work full time and have families. If you statiscally were to draw a normal distribution of the grades, immigrants would be in the 95th percentile. AMericans however are extremelly prone to complain to the point the clases are disrupted by their complaining. The rest of the people suck it up and just do the homework and work hard. That is just my observation.

Then why don't some of these illegals and other hard working immigrants do something constructive about their own countries? They love to claim that Americans are so lazy but whose country do they wish to have? Not their own. Why not?

Why is there no evidence of that racial work ethic where they came from?

[CarolVa1977]

Originally Posted by malamute

Then why don't some of these illegals and other hard working immigrants do something constructive about their own countries? They love to claim that Americans are so lazy but whose country do they wish to have? Not their own. Why not?

Why is there no evidence of that racial work ethic where they came from?

Unless you are a native american, your forefathers did exactly the same thing, so let me ask you a question...why did not your forefathers did the same thing for their countries?

Americans in my opinion tend to complain A LOT. I just gave you the example of my university

I actually have classmates that say "I am only going to get a B and not kill myself for this program". And that is why suddenly there are not that competitive workwise. there is always someone willing to get an A, most likely someone not born here.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by CarolVa1977

Unless you are a native american, your forefathers did exactly the same thing, so let me ask you a question...why did not your forefathers did the same thing for their countries?

Americans in my opinion tend to complain A LOT. I just gave you the example of my university

I actually have classmates that say "I am only going to get a B and not kill myself for this program". And that is why suddenly there are not that competitive workwise. there is always someone willing to get an A, most likely someone not born here.

Yet hispanics have the highest drop out rate of all groups, particularly the recently arrived. And if they were so ambitious, why are they unable to learn any English even after decades of living here and we're being told we must learn to accomodate them by learning Spanish?

Americans will learn more Spanish for a week vacation in Cancun than many immigrants will learn of English after 20 years of living here, it's so bad that the welfare offices have to provide the food stamps and WIC in Spanish to the immigrants now.

My forefathers came for small government and freedom, they came before there was Medicaid and food stamps, and they came lawfully so obviously their reasons were different. Also the countries of my forefathers are liveable and there is no mass exodus out of them.

[CarolVa1977]

I am hispanic and very successful. I came here for the same reasons every other immigrant came, so I guess you can not say ALL HISPANICS.

However, I don't agree with illegal immigration and in my opinion the welfare system should be fundamentally changed.

I can only tell you my opinion. The best construction workers that I ever had were hispanics. The work extremelly hard and fast.

In my university most phd's are immigrants also I am in the Dean List with mostly immigrants. The attitudes that I am showing you even within educated americans are very mainstream. I am not saying there are wrong. I am just saying if you only get C's and B's in school and most immigrants get A's they are the ones that are going to get the job.