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Old 05-10-2011, 08:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajzjmsmom View Post
chicagonut, my spouse is a Border Patrol agent, has been for the last 23 yrs, so I am well aware of what is going on in regards to the wall, and when my spouse tells me the wall will merely serve as a deterent to the illegals and will only push them to another area, then I believe him, over any comments I read on a forum or over any story I read in the media. So while AZ may find success with implenting the wall from border to border, the illegals will simply spill over into Texas and California, unless there is a wall built from CA down to the Gulf of Mexico, it will merely divert the traffic somewhere else. Unless of course all anyone is interested in doing is sealing off AZ then I guess it would be a great thing.
Re-read my post about the porous areas vs the dangerous areas to cross and what the Border Patrol's plan is to cover the latter areas with the wall covering the most porous areas. Arizona should only be protecting their own state and that is why they want the wall. Let Texas and California do the same thing if they don't want the spillover.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:15 AM
 
Location: somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Re-read my post about the porous areas vs the dangerous areas to cross and what the Border Patrol's plan is to cover the latter areas with the wall covering the most porous areas. Arizona should only be protecting their own state and that is why they want the wall. Let Texas and California do the same thing if they don't want the spillover.
And likewise you re-read my post, I am well aware of what the Border Patrols plan is to cover the area and you can be sure I didn't get my info from some faction of the media. I also said if AZ wanted to raise the funds to build a fence from border to border, more power to them.

The difference between you and I, is that I am looking at the whole picture not just one corner of it. Unless we can secure every mile of the US/MX border then it has not been a successful endeavor.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajzjmsmom View Post
And likewise you re-read my post, I am well aware of what the Border Patrols plan is to cover the area and you can be sure I didn't get my info from some faction of the media. I also said if AZ wanted to raise the funds to build a fence from border to border, more power to them.

The difference between you and I, is that I am looking at the whole picture not just one corner of it. Unless we can secure every mile of the US/MX border then it has not been a successful endeavor.
I didn't get my info from the media either. This was the plan when the legislation was passed to build the wall from the get-go.

Depends on what you mean by securing the entire border. With a wall covering the most porous parts of the border and the BP focusing their efforts on the other parts we could cut back illegal immigration immensely. I guess by success you must think that not one illegal alien gets through. No one believes that will happen and that isn't the objective but cutting illegal entry way down means success to me.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:54 AM
 
Location: somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I didn't get my info from the media either. This was the plan when the legislation was passed to build the wall from the get-go.

Depends on what you mean by securing the entire border. With a wall covering the most porous parts of the border and the BP focusing their efforts on the other parts we could cut back illegal immigration immensely. I guess by success you must think that not one illegal alien gets through. No one believes that will happen and that isn't the objective but cutting illegal entry way down means success to me.
Yes, you are correct that was the plan when the legislation was passed, and it all looked very good on paper, however reality intruded and the gov't very quickly realized the the success they had envisioned was not what they thought. Had they taken time to talk to the people who actually get out and work on the border on a daily basis, they might have saved the taxpayers alot of money.

Have you been to these areas you are saying the fence should be at? Do you realize the there are portions of the US/Mex border where these is no way of telling whether you are in the US or Mexico? It all looks great on paper, but reality is much different. We can fix AZ but somehow, someway the illegals will continue to make their way in.

I find it quite amusing that for along time noone outside TX, NM, AZ or CA really cared about the illegal immigration issue, but since there has been an influx of illegals further north into the US now people are screaming about it. The citizens of the above mentioned 4 states have been dealing with illegal and drug issues for years, this is nothing new for us. We live it on a daily basis.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajzjmsmom View Post
Yes, you are correct that was the plan when the legislation was passed, and it all looked very good on paper, however reality intruded and the gov't very quickly realized the the success they had envisioned was not what they thought. Had they taken time to talk to the people who actually get out and work on the border on a daily basis, they might have saved the taxpayers alot of money.

Have you been to these areas you are saying the fence should be at? Do you realize the there are portions of the US/Mex border where these is no way of telling whether you are in the US or Mexico? It all looks great on paper, but reality is much different. We can fix AZ but somehow, someway the illegals will continue to make their way in.

I find it quite amusing that for along time noone outside TX, NM, AZ or CA really cared about the illegal immigration issue, but since there has been an influx of illegals further north into the US now people are screaming about it. The citizens of the above mentioned 4 states have been dealing with illegal and drug issues for years, this is nothing new for us. We live it on a daily basis.
It got defunded but not because it wouldn't work. I am sure the border was studied by experts before the legislation was passed. They didn't need my input or anyone elses.

You find it amusing that up and until Americans living away from the border that hadn't been impacted severely like those in the southwest have, weren't screaming as loud? What's amusing or odd about that?
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajzjmsmom View Post
Please elaborate oh why it got defunded? And what experts would that have been?
The Obama Administration defunded it to put more BP boots on the ground. Why? Because he knows that the physical wall would work along with what BP agents we already have rather than just having more boots on the ground and he didn't want that.

Are you of the belief that the wall wasn't studied by experts that know what works and the areas along the border that it would be put on, especially when it would cost a lot of money to build it? If you do, then I can't help you.

Last edited by chicagonut; 05-10-2011 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:31 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,831 posts, read 57,830,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The Obama Administration defunded it to put more BP boots on the ground. Why? Because he knows that the physical wall would...
would be like squeezing a balloon.

Quote:
Are you of the belief that the wall wasn't studied by experts that know what works and the areas along the border that it would be put on, especially when it would cost so much money to build it? If you do, then I can't help you.
So, are you a Ford man or a Chevy guy?
That's about the significance of one "expert" opinion over another.

It comes down to yet another MONUMENTAL expense for something that (if we actually want to solve the problem) can be done far more simply and with far less expense.

Actually wanting to solve the problem?
Now *that* is the real problem.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:52 AM
 
Location: somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
would be like squeezing a balloon.



So, are you a Ford man or a Chevy guy?
That's about the significance of one "expert" opinion over another.

It comes down to yet another MONUMENTAL expense for something that (if we actually want to solve the problem) can be done far more simply and with far less expense.

Actually wanting to solve the problem?
Now *that* is the real problem.

Thank you!!!!!
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:56 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
would be like squeezing a balloon.



So, are you a Ford man or a Chevy guy?
That's about the significance of one "expert" opinion over another.

It comes down to yet another MONUMENTAL expense for something that (if we actually want to solve the problem) can be done far more simply and with far less expense.

Actually wanting to solve the problem?
Now *that* is the real problem.
Re-read my post as to how a physical barrier would help the BP do their job more effectively and how it would deter illegal immigration.

I am not a "guy" by the way. You are clueless if you don't think the whole border wasn't studied for the feasibility of a border wall and the success possibilities of it.

I haven't a clue what your last sentence means.

Really? Just what is your idea for securing the border by something more simple and far less expensive then?
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:58 AM
 
Location: somewhere
4,264 posts, read 7,929,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The Obama Administration defunded it to put more BP boots on the ground. Why? Because he knows that the physical wall would work along with what BP agents we already have rather than just having more boots on the ground and he didn't want that.

Are you of the belief that the wall wasn't studied by experts that know what works and the areas along the border that it would be put on, especially when it would cost a lot of money to build it? If you do, then I can't help you.
It was defunded before Obama ever took office, geez how quickly we forget the 8000 border patrol agents the Bush administration pushed for.

You are naive if you think it was defunded by the Obama administration to put more BP boots on the ground, it was defunded because it was to expensive and it didn't work. If you believe anything other than this, then I can't help you. But you just keep on believing what it is you believe and I will know what I know for fact.

Oh and btw I don't need your help with anything.
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