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Old 05-10-2011, 12:45 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,842 posts, read 57,851,863 times
Reputation: 29235

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I haven't a clue what your last sentence means.
I suspected as much.
Few of the "anti-illegal" community would.
Most seem limited to sound bite arguments from their handlers.

Quote:
Just what is your idea for securing the border by something more simple and far less expensive then?
Largely it is as I've said before (right in this thread iirc)...

Step 1) amend the overly broad language in the first sentence of the first section of the 14th.

Without doing this all we have is ineffective flailing and floundering attempts to pick at the edges of a problem, that being rooted in Constitutional Protections, it applies to everyone who might come here illegally not just those who cross our southern border.

Without doing this elementary and first step we are saying (as a nation) that we really don't care to solve the problem. That we don't recognize it as being one.

That to the degree we may be concerned about the exponential growth of the problem we believe that the US is big enough and tough enough and doggone it good enough to absorb this too.

Step 2) Establish visa and immigration policies that mirror the same rules and policies that Mexico (and virtually every other nation in the world) use for going there to visit or live or work.

That's it.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:00 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
I suspected as much.
Few of the "anti-illegal" community would.
Most seem limited to sound bite arguments from their handlers.



Largely it is as I've said before (right in this thread iirc)...

Step 1) amend the overly broad language in the first sentence of the first section of the 14th.

Without doing this all we have is ineffective flailing and floundering attempts to pick at the edges of a problem, that being rooted in Constitutional Protections, it applies to everyone who might come here illegally not just those who cross our southern border.

Without doing this elementary and first step we are saying (as a nation) that we really don't care to solve the problem. That we don't recognize it as being one.

That to the degree we may be concerned about the exponential growth of the problem we believe that the US is big enough and tough enough and doggone it good enough to absorb this too.

Step 2) Establish visa and immigration policies that mirror the same rules and policies that Mexico (and virtually every other nation in the world) use for going there to visit or live or work.

That's it.
None of this however will do anything to stop illegal entry by terrorists and criminals. That is why I am an advocate for a reinforced wall along the most porous areas. It will therefore assist the BP to not be spread so thin so that they can guard more effectively in the areas that are not walled. Again, we will never stop all illegal entry (whether they be looking for work, criminals, drug dealers or terrorists) but it would be a huge deterrant that would put a big dent in it.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:57 PM
 
Location: somewhere
4,264 posts, read 7,930,262 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The Obama Administration defunded it to put more BP boots on the ground. Why? Because he knows that the physical wall would work along with what BP agents we already have rather than just having more boots on the ground and he didn't want that.

Are you of the belief that the wall wasn't studied by experts that know what works and the areas along the border that it would be put on, especially when it would cost a lot of money to build it? If you do, then I can't help you.
Actually I think one of us is confused, I am talking about the physical fence which is what this OP was about, not the virtual fence. The virtual fence is the one that was defunded under Obama. Now the Democrats in 2007 stripped the funding for the physical fence, but it wasn't the Obama administration.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,176 posts, read 862,940 times
Reputation: 1287
I know this probably isn't the best place to post this but Im new here and feel very strongly against illegal immigration so you guys will probably see me posting around here a lot. The fence is a great idea and lets hope it pans out.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:53 PM
 
Location: somewhere
4,264 posts, read 7,930,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinSonic View Post
I know this probably isn't the best place to post this but Im new here and feel very strongly against illegal immigration so you guys will probably see me posting around here a lot. The fence is a great idea and lets hope it pans out.
The idea of a fence is a great idea, if the border was one straight line between AZ and Mexico, but it isn't. A border fence in AZ would only alleviate some of the pressure in AZ, but not on the US/MX border as a whole. Shouldn't our goal be to reduce illegal entry all along the border, not just in one state? When you have areas in rural AZ where there is no clear border between Mex and the US it becomes alittle difficult to put a fence in. They have already run into this issue in several different areas, where they erected the fence only to find out it was in Mexico, wasted resources since it had to be removed.

So the proponents say that the fence should be put in the porous areas thereby freeing up the Border Patrol agents to work in the areas where a fence is not feasible, but the illegals have already proven they will climb over, dig under or circumvent the fence, so it will still require a Border Patrol presence to monitor the fence. Right now there are just not enough agents to do this. Just this morning in Nogales they found a very elaborate tunnel with a/c no less that linked Nogales, Mexico with Nogales, AZ.
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:47 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajzjmsmom View Post
The idea of a fence is a great idea, if the border was one straight line between AZ and Mexico, but it isn't. A border fence in AZ would only alleviate some of the pressure in AZ, but not on the US/MX border as a whole. Shouldn't our goal be to reduce illegal entry all along the border, not just in one state? When you have areas in rural AZ where there is no clear border between Mex and the US it becomes alittle difficult to put a fence in. They have already run into this issue in several different areas, where they erected the fence only to find out it was in Mexico, wasted resources since it had to be removed.

So the proponents say that the fence should be put in the porous areas thereby freeing up the Border Patrol agents to work in the areas where a fence is not feasible, but the illegals have already proven they will climb over, dig under or circumvent the fence, so it will still require a Border Patrol presence to monitor the fence. Right now there are just not enough agents to do this. Just this morning in Nogales they found a very elaborate tunnel with a/c no less that linked Nogales, Mexico with Nogales, AZ.
It would be very difficult to climb over a very high double layed wall with razor wire on top of it. There is supposed to be a narrow road between the two walls for the BP's vehicles to pass through. This type of wall was used in a sector along the San Diego border with Mexico and it was a huge succcess. It cut back illegal entry in that area by something like 80-90%. Sure the illegals went elsewhere to get through but imagine if this type of wall were built along the most porous areas as was promised. There just isn't enough manpower to man the whole southern border and that is why a physical barrier is necessary to assist them.

As for tunnels, there is new technologoy that detects tunnels underground.
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,116 posts, read 20,148,778 times
Reputation: 8204
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajzjmsmom View Post
Actually I think one of us is confused, I am talking about the physical fence which is what this OP was about, not the virtual fence. The virtual fence is the one that was defunded under Obama. Now the Democrats in 2007 stripped the funding for the physical fence, but it wasn't the Obama administration.
The virtual fence was a boondoggle, it never worked but Boeing got paid anyway. Now it is costing more to take down than it did to put up. Of course this fence is another Russ Pearce kickback scheme just like the prison kickbacks in SB1070
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Old 05-10-2011, 04:59 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
The virtual fence was a boondoggle, it never worked but Boeing got paid anyway. Now it is costing more to take down than it did to put up. Of course this fence is another Russ Pearce kickback scheme just like the prison kickbacks in SB1070
Yes, the virtual fence was a huge malfunction. The physical barrier however would not be. Who cares about kickbacks in regards to the Arizona border wall just as long as it keeps illegals out of Arizona? Of course you have proof of your assertions about Pearce, right? Hopefully not from some, pro-illegal, liberal website. Don't bother then.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:02 PM
 
1,759 posts, read 1,696,625 times
Reputation: 945
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajzjmsmom View Post
I find it quite amusing that for along time noone outside TX, NM, AZ or CA really cared about the illegal immigration issue, but since there has been an influx of illegals further north into the US now people are screaming about it.
Too bad there is a lot of screaming and not much mobilization toward petitions, bills, bothering the hell out of Congressmen and Senators, taking it to the streets like it's the 60s, etc.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:04 PM
 
Location: somewhere
4,264 posts, read 7,930,262 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It would be very difficult to climb over a very high double layed wall with razor wire on top of it. There is supposed to be a narrow road between the two walls for the BP's vehicles to pass through. This type of wall was used in a sector along the San Diego border with Mexico and it was a huge succcess. It cut back illegal entry in that area by something like 80-90%. Sure the illegals went elsewhere to get through but imagine if this type of wall were built along the most porous areas as was promised. There just isn't enough manpower to man the whole southern border and that is why a physical barrier is necessary to assist them.

As for tunnels, there is new technologoy that detects tunnels underground.
So why wasn't it delivered?
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