U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-23-2011, 08:44 AM
 
254 posts, read 520,202 times
Reputation: 145

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And do you see anything wrong with that? Anything too restrictive?

Big deal, the employer is supposed to try to hire Americans first and pay a legal wage. And why the hell not? With unemployment rates as high as they are, exactly why should semi-trailer load after semi-trailer load of cheap illegal labor be brought in?
Benicar requested the USCIS and DOL sites where the limitations to H2A visas are noted... The post contains no opinion whatsoever...

Now, if you want my opinion on H2A, I think it is a good fair program. It is supposed to keep an eye on the wages paid to the H2A so that salaries of US workers do not get affected. I also agree that the employer should be forced to hire US workers during the H2A program, that procedure ensures that the program is not over-used/abused.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-23-2011, 02:36 PM
 
6,250 posts, read 5,833,112 times
Reputation: 3544
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-boy-80 View Post
I was just thinking this. Why are you applauding them for? The majority of illegals that cross the border are MEXICANS. Why don't the Mexican authorities prevent Mexicans from crossing the border?
For the same reason Americans don't stop their own people from smuggling weapons to Mexico and then complain that Mexico is violent.

I am still surprised that there was a Japanese guy in there. Why?!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2011, 05:20 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by onihC View Post
For the same reason Americans don't stop their own people from smuggling weapons to Mexico and then complain that Mexico is violent.

I am still surprised that there was a Japanese guy in there. Why?!
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S. - FoxNews.com

Because all those AKs and SKSs don't come through the US and the biggest portion of weapons originating from the US were either bought or given to the Mexican military. If they defected and kept their weapon, well, we can't blame that on the US.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2011, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky View Post
Benicar requested the USCIS and DOL sites where the limitations to H2A visas are noted... The post contains no opinion whatsoever...

Now, if you want my opinion on H2A, I think it is a good fair program. It is supposed to keep an eye on the wages paid to the H2A so that salaries of US workers do not get affected. I also agree that the employer should be forced to hire US workers during the H2A program, that procedure ensures that the program is not over-used/abused.
You posted earlier that the government limits the number of H2A visas, which hinders legal immigration. However, you have still not provided info to support your assertion. Of course there are requirements and restrictions, but I don’t see caps on the numbers. If you don’t mind, please quote the section that states the government will only issue X number of H2A visas. I may have overlooked it. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky View Post
There are also unskilled work visas, but those also require employment, are capped to a certain number and require the employeer to demonstrate the need for foreign workers, and do not offer a path for permanent residence.

In short, most of the illegals that cross have no practical way of getting to the US legally... I'm not saying is right, I'm just stating the fact.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2011, 10:51 PM
 
254 posts, read 520,202 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You posted earlier that the government limits the number of H2A visas, which hinders legal immigration. However, you have still not provided info to support your assertion. Of course there are requirements and restrictions, but I don’t see caps on the numbers. If you don’t mind, please quote the section that states the government will only issue X number of H2A visas. I may have overlooked it. Thanks.
...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky View Post
I understand the limits and I agree that limits are necessary... I was just stating the fact that for a Mexican with no education there is pretty much no way to immigrate to the US



The US does admit more immigrants than any other nation, but for a un-educated Mexican there is simply no way to legally immigrate to the US...

The options are:

TN or H1B visas: Skilled workers, bachelors an up, who have to maintain employment at all times can apply for a green card, the process to get the green card and become a permanent resident in average takes 6-8 years

H2A & H2B visas: Un-skilled workers such as agricultural/construction etc. H2B is restricted to 10,000 year, with a 1 year permit (extendable upon approval by the DOL)... H2A(agriculture) depends on how many visas the DOL thinks are necessary... Using this visa you cannot request a green card. THe maximum amount of time an individual can stay with this visa is 3 years.

Marriage

Family: 1rst class: You need to be a minor whose parents are permanent residents or citizens. Or parents of a citizen (not legal resident)

2nd class: Brothers, sisters, adult sons & daughters... Can apply for a green card, the approval takes up to 6 years I believe (I might be wrong on the time in this one but it is several years)

If you know other way please tell me...
Actually there is a mistake there in the H2B cap, which is 33,000 per half of the fiscal year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky View Post
Untrue how? The employer has to demonstrate that there are no sufficient american workers, the DOL then takes the application from all the employers requested and sends the amount of H2A visas available to the consulates to start processing... So finally the DOL does decide the amount of H2A workers...

The DOL sets limits on the salary the employer has to pay to its workers, that is how he posts the job and receives applications from American workers, at the end of the hiring period he then requests X amount of temporary workers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky View Post
For the USCIS the steps are listed in:

USCIS - H-2A Agricultural Workers

One of those steps is to get a foreign labor certification from the DOL...

H-2A Certification

The DOL has the power to deny the application if it finds that American workers are indeed available. And actually it forces the employer to hire US workers during the period he requested for H2A workers...

You can see the section named "Recruitment of U.S. Workers" which lists what the employer has to do to demonstrate lack of workforce...
There is no X maximum number, but it is not an infinite number, is a practical number determined by how many workers are needed for agricultural jobs each year. According to some stats I found and the Wikipedia this number fluctuates around 30,000

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/24...MMIGRANTS.html

Regardless of the number of these visas, these are non-immigrant visas, there is no path to permanent residence. The only visas that provide a path for permanent residence are the skilled work visas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2011, 01:34 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,408,714 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I know you are an open border advocate but this is my understanding of how things are today. Illegals caught by Border Patrol are not entitled to a hearing but are quickly processed for deportation.
Ok...you really know me, don't you? This is cyber space. I could careless what you think of me. At least you have the right info in the last sentence. Good for you!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2011, 01:54 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,408,714 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Admittedly, I do not have firsthand knowledge of, or experience with, either illegal aliens or the deportation process, and I am thankful I don’t. However, are you actually suggesting that all of the reports, including those from DHS, ICE, and the Border Patrol are embellishments? If we deported according to your accounts, we would not have untold millions living here in violation of our laws, and there would be no need for debate, or so-called immigration reform.
Use the info/reports you have read about the above agencies to better comprehend the process.

In the bold: Having immediate deportation (which I support) or having an "entitled hearing" for most illegals (your claim), has nothing to do with the bold. Immigrants will keep trying to cross the border with or without that hearing until they are successful. After all, most of the stories they hear are stories of Americans offering them jobs. Why wouldn't they cross illegally?That is how we have "untold millions", not because of a hearing that allows them to stay. They know they do not have a case if they requested a hearing, so they accept their deportation. You must have a case...i.e. seeking asylum, or the judge will not hear your case. Simply stating, "I want a better life" is no where found on any law book. One must meet the qualifications.

Quote:
Furthermore, while I realize you have a personal relationship with illegal aliens, you do not personally know, nor are you privy to, the experiences of all, or even a fraction of the estimated 12-30+ million illegals in this country. Therefore, your knowledge and experience is limited to the illegals you have encountered, which hardly makes you an authority on our deportation process.
I never said I had any authority but I at least have a better understanding of the process. That is what one should do, particularly, when you are an activist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2011, 02:00 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,408,714 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
You are exactly right.

The reality is that very very little is done about illegals. They are very rarely deported even when there are glaring problems.

Fire Leaves 18 Homeless in Montana Vista | KTSM News Channel 9

A typical example - 18 people living in two run down mobile homes that burned down. Most here illegally of course -- and the Red Cross is using money donated to it to keep them here.
Malamute, you are off topic again. Benicar and I were discussing illegal immigrants detained while crossing the border and their deportation.

You posted an article on a family that is living in the US. They were not found attempting to cross, they were already established.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2011, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky View Post
...



Actually there is a mistake there in the H2B cap, which is 33,000 per half of the fiscal year





There is no X maximum number, but it is not an infinite number, is a practical number determined by how many workers are needed for agricultural jobs each year. According to some stats I found and the Wikipedia this number fluctuates around 30,000

Current Immigration Statistics - Nonimmigrants - Workers, Program, Foreign, Visas, Fiscal, and Spouse

Regardless of the number of these visas, these are non-immigrant visas, there is no path to permanent residence. The only visas that provide a path for permanent residence are the skilled work visas.
In other words, contrary to your assertion, the government does not “cap” H2A visas. Therefore, there is no reason Mexicans cannot legally enter this country, if they so desire. If they are truly only interested in working to feed their families, permanent resident status or citizenship should be the least of their concerns. After all, the purpose of a “guest” worker program is to provide “temporary” employment, and nothing else should be expected.

Why do you believe we should grant permanent resident status and a path to citizenship to every Mexican who chooses to illegally enter this country, regardless of their benefit, or lack thereof, to this country?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2011, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Use the info/reports you have read about the above agencies to better comprehend the process.

In the bold: Having immediate deportation (which I support) or having an "entitled hearing" for most illegals (your claim), has nothing to do with the bold. Immigrants will keep trying to cross the border with or without that hearing until they are successful. After all, most of the stories they hear are stories of Americans offering them jobs. Why wouldn't they cross illegally?That is how we have "untold millions", not because of a hearing that allows them to stay. They know they do not have a case if they requested a hearing, so they accept their deportation. You must have a case...i.e. seeking asylum, or the judge will not hear your case. Simply stating, "I want a better life" is no where found on any law book. One must meet the qualifications.

I never said I had any authority but I at least have a better understanding of the process. That is what one should do, particularly, when you are an activist.
You CAN’T be serious. Perhaps you aren’t aware of the hundreds, if not thousands of “dismissed” cases without a hearing. How on earth can a judge determine ANYTHING without even hearing a case? How must an illegal “prove” his/her case if judges arbitrarily dismiss en masse?

Illegal aliens are here because our immigration laws are not being enforced, which creates a magnet for illegal immigration. And, deportation is simply a joke for most illegals. As you know, they generally return within days. You’re right -- why wouldn’t they come when it is common knowledge that they will be accommodated, especially if they give birth (which MOST do) on U.S. soil. The entire world knows our country has become a free-for-all.

Of course you have a better understanding of the process. Why wouldn’t you? By your own admission, some of your best friends are here illegally. Likewise, if I associated with drug dealers, I am sure I would have a better understanding of the ins and outs of the drug trade. However, I do not need to live with, or personally know illegal aliens to recognize our lax deportation process. After all, it has made us the laughingstock of the world.

As for my “activism,” all I need to know is that millions of foreigners are here without permission, and are fleecing taxpayers. I also need to know if laws are being proposed to both combat or entice illegal immigration. I don’t need to cavort with criminals to understand right from wrong, or whether laws are being enforced.

By the way, we are not discussing “immigrants.” They are here legally.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top