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Old 06-03-2011, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,419 posts, read 3,857,973 times
Reputation: 2614

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I disagree. Why would they continue to come en masse if there are no jobs, welfare, birthright citizenship, education or healthcare benefits for them? Most would stay home. No one is suggesting that all illegal immigration would end but it would put a huge dent in it.

As for border security, if worse comes to worse we will have to put the military on the border with orders to shoot because it isn't only those looking for work trying to enter but the drug cartels, criminals and terrorists. Your suggestion that we just throw in the towel isn't what made America great and strong.
Yes you do have to secure the border better. But here's the ugly facts on that:
1.) 2000 miles = 3,520,000 yards. So if you put a guard tower every 100 yards that's 35,200 guard towers. Take a rotation of four guards and three 8 hour shifts per day and you end up needing 422,400 troops to guard the border (if you want any chance in hell of it being effective.) This is your single biggest expense for securing the border. (To put that into perspective, the United States Army has 561,984 active personnel.)
2.) A concrete wall 2000 miles long, 2 feet thick and 20 feet high would require 422,400,000 cubic feet of concrete, and that's not counting the 2000 miles of re-bar to reinforce that concrete wall.
3.) I don't know how much it will take to build 35,200 sturdy guard towers, but I doubt it'd be cheap.

I'm not saying that you can't do it. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. But it's not gonna be cheap to build "The Great Wall of the United States of America."

The reason they'd continue to come is bacause the social programs of the USA are big, bulky and easy to defraud and because employers can pay less than minimum wage and will be happy to hire them for that reason.

 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:36 PM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,659,209 times
Reputation: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
This isn't about white culture. It is about American culture. I suppose Mexicans would be clapping their hands if millions of Chinese invaded their country and changed it from a Hispanic one culturally to Asian instead and Mexicans would have to learn Mandarin. I just love the hypocricies of the pro-illegals.

I don't find my white nor my American culture to be superior to any others. I just expect our country's borders to be respected and our culture not diluted or changed by an invading force. Once again, the stench of the race card is in the air.
Mexico is lucky in that they receive legal immigrants in small numbers. This gives native Mexicans more time to assimilate to other cultures. Over the yrs the immigrants who have settled in Mexico have blended in well and not pushed out native Mexicans due to large numbers and explosive birth rates.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:42 PM
 
509 posts, read 608,854 times
Reputation: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Yes you do have to secure the border better. But here's the ugly facts on that:
1.) 2000 miles = 3,520,000 yards. So if you put a guard tower every 100 yards that's 35,200 guard towers. Take a rotation of four guards and three 8 hour shifts per day and you end up needing 422,400 troops to guard the border (if you want any chance in hell of it being effective.) This is your single biggest expense for securing the border. (To put that into perspective, the United States Army has 561,984 active personnel.)
2.) A concrete wall 2000 miles long, 2 feet thick and 20 feet high would require 422,400,000 cubic feet of concrete, and that's not counting the 2000 miles of re-bar to reinforce that concrete wall.
3.) I don't know how much it will take to build 35,200 sturdy guard towers, but I doubt it'd be cheap.

I'm not saying that you can't do it. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. But it's not gonna be cheap to build "The Great Wall of the United States of America."

The reason they'd continue to come is bacause the social programs of the USA are big, bulky and easy to defraud and because employers can pay less than minimum wage and will be happy to hire them for that reason.

Eh, we have thousands upon thousands of ways to stem the tidal wave of illegal invasion. There is just no motivation from the Government to stem the flow at all...And stopping it is a joke, the Feds dont want to stop it. Claiming the border is impossible to guard is such a cop out with the technology we have today.

Look at all of the "toys" our military has. We have thousands upon thousands of unmanned drones doing fly bys/Patrolling vast amounts of terrain in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan right now. Those same drones could easily patrol the border and be "lookouts". But their not, the Government thinks that killing a few terrorists on the other side of the globe is more important than guarding the border. A meer 500 of those drones could have "eyes" on virtually the entire border by themselves.

Also our ground based technology is immense. A common argument amongst border security is that most illegals sneak in at night. True, but again, our military has no problem there. Infrared technology and Nightvision technology makes any human being stand out like a sore thumb at night...But again, there is no motivation to supply the border with that tech. Its all in Iraq. Our border security is using tech from the 1960s. Its no wonder so many illegals come in at night and our border is a joke.

There are so many more ways to stem the illegal flow than that. Simple things such as requiring E-verify for any type of work would help so much...But again [yes again], the Government does not care. If the motivation was truely there to stop illegals and remove them...They would be gone in a heartbeat. Yet all one has to do is read about the recent "dairy farm" raid where 40 illegals were let go and not arrested...Sure seems like the Feds love illegal aliens afterall, doesn't it ? They would be arrested for being illegal otherwise.

The problem is really with our Leaders, they are in cahoots with cheap labor. Simple as that. The human issue of illegal aliens is a simple issue that is very solvable but the leadership issue is where the "block" is at.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Location: John & Ken-ville
13,692 posts, read 15,120,333 times
Reputation: 9492
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonaos View Post
Eh, we have thousands upon thousands of ways to stem the tidal wave of illegal invasion. There is just no motivation from the Government to stem the flow at all...And stopping it is a joke, the Feds dont want to stop it. Claiming the border is impossible to guard is such a cop out with the technology we have today.

Look at all of the "toys" our military has today. We have thousands upon thousands of unmanned drones doing fly bys/Patrolling vast amounts of terrain in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan right now. Those same drones could easily patrol the border and be "lookouts". But their not, the Government thinks that killing a few terrorists on the other side of the globe is more important than guarding the border. A meer 500 of those drones could have "eyes" on virtually the entire border by themselves.

Also our ground based technology is immense. A common argument amongst border security is that most illegals sneak in at night. True, but again, our military has no problem there. Infrared technology and Nightvision technology makes any human being stand out like a sore thumb at night...But again, there is no motivation to supply the border with that tech. Its all in Iraq. Our border security is using tech from the 1960s. Its no wonder so many illegals come in at night and our border is a joke.

There are so many more ways to stem the illegal flow than that. Simple things such as requiring E-verify for any type of work would help so much...But again [yes again], the Government does not care. If the motivation was truely there to stop illegals and remove them...They would be gone in a heartbeat. Yet all one has to do is read about the recent "dairy farm" raid where 40 illegals were let go and not arrested...Sure seems like the Feds love illegal aliens afterall, doesn't it ? They would be arrested for being illegal otherwise.

The problem is really with our Leaders, they are in cahoots with cheap labor. Simple as that. The human issue of illegal aliens is a simple issue that is very solvable but the leadership issue is where the "block" is at.
I agree with just about everything you say except "cheap labor".

It's not a secret that illegals undercut the wages of Americans. But with so many citizens out of work, there's no reason to believe that they wouldn't take the jobs that illegals have now. Whenever a processing plant is raided there are swarms of people lined for for days to have the jobs that the illegals leave behind.

No. This isn't about cheap labor anymore. It's about money. Balancing a budget on the backs of taxpayers and legalizing illegals to have more tax money.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 02:04 PM
 
187 posts, read 151,825 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Good. The US needs a constant flow of immigrants. Immigrant families have the strongest work ethic in the US.

agree, good post
 
Old 06-03-2011, 02:10 PM
 
509 posts, read 608,854 times
Reputation: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
I agree with just about everything you say except "cheap labor".

It's not a secret that illegals undercut the wages of Americans. But with so many citizens out of work, there's no reason to believe that they wouldn't take the jobs that illegals have now. Whenever a processing plant is raided there are swarms of people lined for for days to have the jobs that the illegals leave behind.

No. This isn't about cheap labor anymore. It's about money. Balancing a budget on the backs of taxpayers and legalizing illegals to have more tax money.

Yea they are future tax payers, sooner or later amnesty is going to be forced in. They are considered Americans as it is by alot of Politicians, they dont even call them illegals but "migrants" or "immigrants".
 
Old 06-03-2011, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,419 posts, read 3,857,973 times
Reputation: 2614
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonaos View Post
Eh, we have thousands upon thousands of ways to stem the tidal wave of illegal invasion. There is just no motivation from the Government to stem the flow at all...And stopping it is a joke, the Feds dont want to stop it. Claiming the border is impossible to guard is such a cop out with the technology we have today.

Look at all of the "toys" our military has. We have thousands upon thousands of unmanned drones doing fly bys/Patrolling vast amounts of terrain in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan right now. Those same drones could easily patrol the border and be "lookouts". But their not, the Government thinks that killing a few terrorists on the other side of the globe is more important than guarding the border. A meer 500 of those drones could have "eyes" on virtually the entire border by themselves.

Also our ground based technology is immense. A common argument amongst border security is that most illegals sneak in at night. True, but again, our military has no problem there. Infrared technology and Nightvision technology makes any human being stand out like a sore thumb at night...But again, there is no motivation to supply the border with that tech. Its all in Iraq. Our border security is using tech from the 1960s. Its no wonder so many illegals come in at night and our border is a joke.

There are so many more ways to stem the illegal flow than that. Simple things such as requiring E-verify for any type of work would help so much...But again [yes again], the Government does not care. If the motivation was truely there to stop illegals and remove them...They would be gone in a heartbeat. Yet all one has to do is read about the recent "dairy farm" raid where 40 illegals were let go and not arrested...Sure seems like the Feds love illegal aliens afterall, doesn't it ? They would be arrested for being illegal otherwise.

The problem is really with our Leaders, they are in cahoots with cheap labor. Simple as that. The human issue of illegal aliens is a simple issue that is very solvable but the leadership issue is where the "block" is at.
Pretty much everything you just said is true.

Another ugly fact: It is going to get harder and harder to win any elections while maintaining a hard-line stance about border security. The Hispanics who are here legally don't much care for being profiled and targeted by enforcement and many of them don't see why anyone has a problem with their fellow Hispanics walking into the USA uninvited.

Consider the 2010 numbers and the projected numbers for 2050:
Non-Hispanic Whites
64.7% (now)
46.3% (2050)
Hispanics/Latinos (of any race)
16.0% (now)
30.2% (2050)
African Americans
12.9% (now)
13.0% (2050)
Asian Americans
4.6% (now)
7.8% (2050)


They're a more powerful block of voters than African Americans. And if Hispanics vote as a block on this issue -- well you can see the writing on the wall already. No possible way to win any election when 16% of Americans are against you right out of the gate. All other groups are too divided.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 04:56 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Pretty much everything you just said is true.

Another ugly fact: It is going to get harder and harder to win any elections while maintaining a hard-line stance about border security. The Hispanics who are here legally don't much care for being profiled and targeted by enforcement and many of them don't see why anyone has a problem with their fellow Hispanics walking into the USA uninvited.

Consider the 2010 numbers and the projected numbers for 2050:
Non-Hispanic Whites
64.7% (now)
46.3% (2050)
Hispanics/Latinos (of any race)
16.0% (now)
30.2% (2050)
African Americans
12.9% (now)
13.0% (2050)
Asian Americans
4.6% (now)
7.8% (2050)

They're a more powerful block of voters than African Americans. And if Hispanics vote as a block on this issue -- well you can see the writing on the wall already. No possible way to win any election when 16% of Americans are against you right out of the gate. All other groups are too divided.
Nope, only 10 million Hispanics voted in the last presidential election. A drop in the bucket compared to non-hispanic voters.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Mexifornia
913 posts, read 735,854 times
Reputation: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Pretty much everything you just said is true.

Another ugly fact: It is going to get harder and harder to win any elections while maintaining a hard-line stance about border security. The Hispanics who are here legally don't much care for being profiled and targeted by enforcement and many of them don't see why anyone has a problem with their fellow Hispanics walking into the USA uninvited.

Consider the 2010 numbers and the projected numbers for 2050:
Non-Hispanic Whites
64.7% (now)
46.3% (2050)
Hispanics/Latinos (of any race)
16.0% (now)
30.2% (2050)
African Americans
12.9% (now)
13.0% (2050)
Asian Americans
4.6% (now)
7.8% (2050)
The European descended white population is lower than that. According to the census, "white" is defined as having origins in europe, north africa or the middle east.
Also the projected timeline for the takeover has moved up by 10 years, so around 2040(maybe sooner) european whites will no longer be the majority group.

The End of America Moves Ten Years Closer | British National Party
Source:America’s Tomorrow - PolicyLink
 
Old 06-03-2011, 06:08 PM
 
1,495 posts, read 1,876,596 times
Reputation: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemdiver View Post
According to the census, "white" is defined as having origins in europe, north africa or the middle east.The End of America Moves Ten Years Closer | British National Party
Source:America’s Tomorrow - PolicyLink
So? Is there something wrong with that definition? Are Persians not white? Are Armenians not white? I'd say they are.

Last edited by j_cat; 06-03-2011 at 06:09 PM.. Reason: typo
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