The Latin American Invasion of the United States (immigrants, Mexican, Spanish)
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1. The Irish came legally.
2.Also the never push for Irish as an US language.
3.The Irish assimilated
Can this arguement be any sillier? What "language" is "Irish" if not "English"? Can you please explain how the "Irish" language is different from the "English" language besides an accent?
Because at the time, the USA welcomed all comers. There were no limits on how many people could immigrate to the USA.
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2.Also the never push for Irish as an US language.
Right because the Irish spoke English as their first language. On the other hand, Danes, Germans, Russians, Polish and a whole range of immigrants who did not speak English as their first language were left alone and many of them spent a few generations not speaking English. The difference wasn't language, it was that they came with money. The Irish came flat broke, but virtually all spoke English just fine.
Having said that, I think it's a perfectly reasonable minimum expectation that they be required to learn English in order to become citizens. With the reward of US citizenship dangling before them, I think they will learn English for it. Right now though, the illegals have no reason to bother.
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3.The Irish assimilated
To a degree, but a huge segment of US culture as we know it boils down to us adopting Irish customs. Why else do we care about St Patrick's Day? In my experience, Latin American immigrants (legal or illegal) are one generation away from assimilation. The children of such immigrants speak fluent English and are as American as you please. A lot of that next generation has to relearn Spanish later on because they forget how to speak it.
A former coworker of mine is the classic case story we hear all the time. His parents came into the USA to -- legally in this case -- as a young couple. They were going to work hard, save a ton of money and then go back to Mexico and live like kings. Well, the problem they didn't count on: Their kids never lived anywhere but the USA and they were miserable when they got to Mexico. It didn't take long for his parents to give up and move back the the USA for good. This scenario is commonplace. Their kids only barely speak Spanish. They're as American as you can be.
To be clear, I don't want the USA to turn into an extension of Latin America. I don't speak Spanish. I don't think I should be required to learn Spanish. I don't think we need to compromise on this issue. And I'm not Latino so it's not like I've got any ax to grind here. I'm a mutt-mix of Scandinavian, German and Scottish.
I'm just pointing out the obvious: The current approach is doomed to fail. Another approach is going to need to be figured out. If they want in badly you can't build a wall that is high enough and thick enough to stop them. They'll find a way to get here. Right now we're fighting an impossible fight. Its never going to work.
Yes secure the border, but at the same time open things up for more Hispanics to immigrate legally.
Think of it like a dam. You have control of the flow to some extent but you have to let water through. Sometimes you have to let more water through than normal to keep the water from going over the top of the dam.
In my experience, Latin American immigrants (legal or illegal) are one generation away from assimilation. The children of such immigrants speak fluent English and are as American as you please. A lot of that next generation has to relearn Spanish later on because they forget how to speak it.
Come on down to Texas for a spell. ESL is pretty much a requirement for all certified teachers even if they don't deal with language issues.
Bilingual classes outnumber English only classes.
Cinqo de Mayo and Quinceañera are bigger events than July 4.
Going to take a few more generations to acquire that fluent English.
Some kids only get English at school as there is no English at home or in their local community.
Come on down to Texas for a spell. ESL is pretty much a requirement for all certified teachers even if they don't deal with language issues.
Bilingual classes outnumber English only classes.
Cinqo de Mayo and Quinceañera are bigger events than July 4.
Going to take a few more generations to acquire that fluent English.
Some kids only get English at school as there is no English at home or in their local community.
I've no doubt you're 100% right -- and that is certainly nothing new in US history. I do think that if you take the approach of controlling the flow rather than stopping it you can help fluency in English as well. Make it in their best interests to learn to speak English fluently. You're holding out the carrot of citizenship and no longer having to worry about being deported at a moment's notice. Learning the language suddenly becomes a really, really good idea. And it also likely becomes a mass-movement. Spanish speaking only communities would undoubtedly help each other out learning English.
I expect that there will be a lot of English as a Second Language communities for a long time to come, especially in border states. But you can at least make things better than they are now.
Throwing up a metaphorical dam with no spillway and expecting that you've now stopped the flow of water completely: That's just idiocy. Won't work.
In my opinion, Hispanics and others coming from south of the border are the new Irish. Back in the 1800's the Irish were leaving Ireland in droves and coming here. They were poor, they were uneducated and they were viewed as the lowliest scum of the earth by a lot of Americans. Well ... they actually helped make this nation great. As they incorporated themselves into society in the USA. Prejudices diminished. Now they are just part of the mix here and nobody is freaking out about the droves of Irish that came to America.
The difference is that today we have this notion of limiting immigration into the USA. That didn't exist back when the Irish immigration was happening. Today we've made it incredibly difficult to become a citizen and we keep trying to close the border with Mexico to stop the flow in illegal immigrants coming into the USA.
Consider for a moment: East Germany was a police state that put the USSR and Nazi Germany to shame. They built a wall to stop people from crossing the border. They spied on everyone and knew in great detail what everyone in East Germany was doing at all times. They're spared no effort to keep the East Germans inside East Germany. Yet for all their super-control-freak measures, land-mines, barbed wire, and other death traps at the border, they STILL weren't successful in stopping people from leaving East Germany.
When people desperately want to cross a border, they're going to cross now matter what obstacles you put in their way. This may be a lousy time for it economically, but I've long since concluded that US immigration needs to open the flood gates and let more of them in legally. Do something to legalize those that are already here -- and sure penalize them in the process for breaking the law. But that's an estimated 12 million people that are paying no taxes but reaping most of the benefits that those taxes pay for. The fact that they often are paid less than minimum wage makes chaos out of the whole system. If their employers were forced to pay minimum wage, there wouldn't be a segment of "illegal immigrant only" jobs. And more people in the USA means more people buying stuff which means things tend to equal out in terms of jobs because of the increase in demand for everything that people buy -- so no it doesn't boil down to "they're taking all our jobs from us." By being here they also create jobs.
Americans need to wake up and realize: Even if you take it to the craziest Gestapo extremes, even if you build a 1000 foot all with a moat on each side, no matter what you do if you have a large mass of people who want to get into the USA, they're going to get here no matter what you do to stop them. Rather than fighting an impossible battle, it's time to change tactics. Try to make solutions work out in the best interests of the USA. Continually escalating immigration enforcement and doing nothing else ain't EVER going to work and it just turns the USA into a psychotically paranoid police state.
The Irish came here legally.
The Italians came here legally.
There is ABSOLUTELY no comparison between the old wave and the new one.
I'm sorry but if you come here, have a job, stay crime free and pay taxes then I don't see the problem. Sorry that most of them work harder and longer than you do, and in jobs you don't want; while you complain about being unemployed.
There's a 100% hispanic owned and operated McDonalds near my house and I have never waited longer than 45 seconds for my meal after ordering, that's enough convincing for me
And for the right-wingers on here, SPANISH ISN'T A SCARY LANGUAGE. YOU SHOULD TRY LEARNING IT SOMETIME.
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