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Allowing your nation to simply be occupied one county at a time is what constitutes idiocy.
And yet you have no clue how to enforce the status quo of immigration. You might think you can make it work but you can't. You have 2000 miles of border and the entire coast-line of the USA to patrol and guard if you want to stop illegals completely.
But hey, what do I know. Let's hear all about your impenetrable wall that is going to stop all those illegal immigrants from coming here. (Note: Great Wall of China, Iron Curtain, Bamboo Curtain, all failed so you'll have to do better.)
If somebody can come up with a foolproof plan to stop all illegals from coming into the USA -- then and only then does it make any kind of sense to say that "just stop them from coming here" is actually a plan an not wishful thinking.
Were talking bout ILLEGAL aliens. NOT people who followed the rules.
How clearly can it be spelled out. There were no rules back then. Poles, Irish, Italians -- all of Europe had no limits set. If they got here successfully then most often they'd become US citizens the same day they arrived.
...If they got here successfully then most often they'd become US citizens the same day they arrived.
Early on, but later there generally was an approximate two year period, sometimes where you got two citizens (which meant White males at that point) to attest for you. It was often more for property ownership than an ability to vote. Who wants to see a certificate from one of my Great Great Grandfathers (I can put it in my profile)?
How clearly can it be spelled out. There were no rules back then. Poles, Irish, Italians -- all of Europe had no limits set. If they got here successfully then most often they'd become US citizens the same day they arrived.
It doesn't matter. We have rules and you should pay the consequences if you don't follow them.
The Irish, English, Germans, Danish, Swedish, Italian, Russian and everyone else -- they all came at a time when there was no such thing as an illegal immigrant. You got on a boat, made it to the USA and right on the docks you could be a US citizen the same day you arrived.
It all makes good logical sense. But the good logical sense goes right out the window when you can't keep them out. Right now you have a flood of immigration that is going to happen whether you like it or not. The only choice to be made: What kind of terms do you want that immigration to take place on? Do you want it to be as mutually beneficial as possible or do you want it to mutually disadvantageous?
If I thought that we stood any chance in hell of completely stopping the flow of illegal immigrants across the border then I'd be all in favor of building "THE GREAT WALL OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" big and proud as you like. But it ain't gonna work and that's just reality.
Of course I'm going to go there! I am not saying we are Nazi Germany nor are we East Germany. But I am saying that even police states at that level of heightened alert were not able to stop people from crossing a border that they very much wanted to cross.
Continuing with the single minded approach of "just stop them from coming here" means that the USA will start to look more and more like a police state -- all to track down and deport the illegals. And the sad fact is, they won't succeed for the most part no matter how Gestapo-esque we get. If police states watching the every move and controlling the every thought of their citizens are unable to completely stop people from crossing a border what kind of chance does a free nation like the USA have in doing so??
I'd like to hear you're brilliant plan for creating a 2000 mile long wall that is completely impervious, please tell us all about it. But before you do so, let's remember that massive walls like the Great Wall of China and Hadrian's Wall FAILED. The Iron Curtain with land mines, razor wire and motion activated machine guns and guard towers everywhere -- FAILED.
So you're going to have to do better than any of these if you want it to work. Now lets hear all about your vision of the impenetrable 2000 mile "Great Wall of the United States of America."
Now what I think will work is hitting it from both ends: Make the border much more secure. Build you walls or whatever. Then open things up to allow more immigration to happen -- on our terms not theirs. That means learning English. That means paying taxes. That means assimilating to American society. That means loyalty to the USA.
Raising the dam and opening the spillway to let more through. It's not the solution I want to see, but it's the only one that I can envision actually working.
Try Arizona 1070 laws thru the USA. That will chase most illegals OUT.
People are mad and want action agains the illegals. And its gonna get worse unless Obama wakes up.
Try Arizona 1070 laws thru the USA. That will chase most illegals OUT.
People are mad and want action agains the illegals. And its gonna get worse unless Obama wakes up.
Hmmm, okay chase them out of Arizona to where? Utah? California? Colorado?
New Mexico? And the 1070 laws require everyone to carry their papers proving they have a right to be here. How long till they get really, really good at making fake papers and fake ID's?
I don't hold it against Arizona that they want to get tough on the issue. They are on the front lines and it isn't fun for them at all. Immigration reform needs to happen at the Federal level, otherwise Arizona and Federal authorities will just butt heads and **** each other off. Trick is that the Federal government doesn't know how to do anything useful about anything and hasn't for a long long time.
Am I the only one who thinks that the entire illegal immigration forum would be more logical if you used a find/replace feature to replace all occurrences of "illegal immigrants" with "CEOs"? This country is under attack from the top, not the bottom.
How clearly can it be spelled out. There were no rules back then. Poles, Irish, Italians -- all of Europe had no limits set. If they got here successfully then most often they'd become US citizens the same day they arrived.
That's not true. People were turned away if they had infectious diseases. They were also not allowed to get access to the public welfare system. If you want to reduce illegal immigration you need to stop allowing illegals to claim welfare. No migrant should be granted access to food stamps or medicaid merely because they've given birth on US soil.
Your other conclusions don't make sense either. Legalize illegal migrants and you won't magically turn them into taxpayers. More than half don't even half a high school diploma. Many don't even speak English. The only advantage they offer employers are low wages. Make them legal and you neutralize their attractiveness to employers. You also turn them into an even greater tax burden on the middle class as they start to qualify for even more social services.
The solution is ultimately obvious: don't provide any social services to illegals and they'll leave. No food stamps. No anchor babies. No interpreters. Allow ER access for true emergencies and that's it. Make English the national language and enforce it. Fine employers heavily.
The truth isn't that we can't stop them. The truth is that we can't afford to let them continue coming here. We don't need millions of low skilled migrants with very little education largely from a single ethnic group. Stop throwing up your hands and enforce our immigration laws. California will again be a desirable place to live. Mexico might actually deal with their underclass instead of shipping them here. The middle class will benefit from lowered taxes. The working class will benefit from increased job opportunities and wage pressures.
We've closed the door before. It's been open since 1965. We finally need to slam it shut for a few decades and let our nation recover.
...People were turned away if they had infectious diseases...
At a time that infectious diseases weren't understood?...
And it only took us until the 90's for us not to turn away anyone with Down Syndrome...
That's the 1990's...
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