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Old 06-09-2011, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,454 posts, read 7,553,239 times
Reputation: 12124

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[quote=olecapt;19525563][quote=ditchlights;19525215][quote=olecapt;19525124]

Quote:
We were discussing Obama's speech which, it appears, you completely misunderstood.

And now you want to go off on a rant about Mexican illegals.
This thread has ALWAYS been about illegals from post #1. It just seems that we interpret Obummers speech differently. To each our own.

Quote:
You might try and make up your mind about which issue it is you are upset about.
I'm upset about ALL the issues regarding our inability to curb the IA issue.
Quote:
I fully agree that the the Mexican immigration was illegal, should never have been allowed and is bad for the US.

Now how do you propose to fix it?
All the solutions have been presented, yet our government wants to take NO action against ANY of it. That is what this thread is about, isn't it?

Quote:
No free passes. It appears almost totally impossible that a mass deportation is going to happen.

It is even less likey they will leave of their own volilition.

If nothing else happens many more will come to join them..

So what is it you are proposing?
What could I possibly propose that would be accepted by our defunct government? We're just going in circles.......

 
Old 06-09-2011, 10:57 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
If an illegal alien dies from lack of acccess to medical care the illegal alien has only themselves to blame. Sixty percent of all illegals are Mexican. Mexico has a national health care system that cares for Mexican citizens. Why should Mexicans be allowed to walk across the border without permission, unilaterally declare themselves an American and then demand we pay their medical bills?

This is crazy. Insane. Ludicrous. Lunacy. Poor Mexicans constitute the majority of illegals. They already have health care. Why do they need additional coverage provided for at American taxpayer expense? Millions of real Americans (the kind who live here legally) have no health care access. Why the hell should give a damn if some twit from Mexico doesn't have another health care system?

I just paid off literally a thousand dollars for medical bills. And I have relatively good medical coverage. Why the heck should I personally be held liable for the medical bills of foreign criminals as well?

I can't begin to express just how baffled I am that someone would dare insinuate otherwise. Or have the unmitigated nerve to compare my ancestors to these creeps. My relatives immigrated here legally. They were vetted. They faced no welfare system. If they couldn't make it here they left.

How dare any Mexican national demand that such rules not apply to them!

How about we work it in reverse. If Mexicans feel entitled to demand that Americans pay their medical bills . . . can we ask them to pay ours as well? Can we ship pregnant women there and ask them to pay for the delivery of the child? Mail our old folks to Mexico City and then hold up signs in English whining that anyone who doesn't want to pay for their health care bills is a racist?

Fair's fair, right?
 
Old 06-09-2011, 10:57 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661
[quote=ditchlights;19525743][quote=olecapt;19525563][quote=ditchlights;19525215]
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post



This thread has ALWAYS been about illegals from post #1. It just seems that we interpret Obummers speech differently. To each our own.



I'm upset about ALL the issues regarding our inability to curb the IA issue.


All the solutions have been presented, yet our government wants to take NO action against ANY of it. That is what this thread is about, isn't it?



What could I possibly propose that would be accepted by our defunct government? We're just going in circles.......
The citizen of the US have no strong interest in purusing the issue.

Just how it is. And without a large citizen push you are not going to see billions spent pursuing the issue.

So you can wring you hands or find some sort of a compromise to move the problem to something than can be handled by the existing resource or close to it.

If we don't it clearly will get worse again as soon as the economy picks up.

So you guys can go for a complete defeat or a limited victory.

Your choice.
 
Old 06-09-2011, 11:04 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
If you want illegals to leave there are a few solutions.

Don't make their brats citizens.

Do not provide them with access to any form of medical care unless they agree to pay. If they don't pay assume they are Mexican and fine Mexico for the full amount.

Fine employers heavily.

Declare English the national language and do not provide interpreters unless under very specific circumstances.

Deny them access to any form of welfare.

Confiscate their earnings if earned illegally.

Distribute leaflets in Mexico warning of serious consequences if a Mexican even dreams of stepping over the border.

Demand cooperation from Calderon including speeches warning his high school dropouts not to come here.

A few common sense measures (and far less pandering to the ethnocentric, racist Hispanic lobby) and illegals will ditch this country. We don't need them. We don't want them. We're tired of paying for them. If we can finally get elected officials to agree with the American public we can finally get a rational solution to this problem.

Let Mexico and Latin America solve their own damned overpopulation problems. Our nation and theirs will be far better off.
 
Old 06-09-2011, 11:06 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,484,948 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
If you want illegals to leave there are a few solutions.

Don't make their brats citizens.

Do not provide them with access to any form of medical care unless they agree to pay. If they don't pay assume they are Mexican and fine Mexico for the full amount.

Fine employers heavily.

Declare English the national language and do not provide interpreters unless under very specific circumstances.

Deny them access to any form of welfare.

Confiscate their earnings if earned illegally.

Distribute leaflets in Mexico warning of serious consequences if a Mexican even dreams of stepping over the border.

Demand cooperation from Calderon including speeches warning his high school dropouts not to come here.

A few common sense measures (and far less pandering to the ethnocentric, racist Hispanic lobby) and illegals will ditch this country. We don't need them. We don't want them. We're tired of paying for them. If we can finally get elected officials to agree with the American public we can finally get a rational solution to this problem.

Let Mexico and Latin America solve their own damned overpopulation problems. Our nation and theirs will be far better off.
Yawn...

Sorry...
 
Old 06-09-2011, 11:08 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post

The citizen of the US have no strong interest in purusing the issue.

Just how it is. And without a large citizen push you are not going to see billions spent pursuing the issue.

So you can wring you hands or find some sort of a compromise to move the problem to something than can be handled by the existing resource or close to it.

If we don't it clearly will get worse again as soon as the economy picks up.

So you guys can go for a complete defeat or a limited victory.

Your choice.
We most certainly do. Very few issues unite the left and right like the problem of illegals. We've just been ignored constantly by pandering pols and greedy employers.

The only possible compromise are reasonable efforts to tell illegals to get out and go home. Anything else ignores the will of the American people, insults legal immigrants, punishes the American middle class and hurts our own poor citizens. We owe illegals no more than we owe any other group of criminals. As I wrote previously stop giving them welfare and get Calderon to assume responsibility for his own underclass. That will solve most of the problem.

Last edited by Eleanora1; 06-09-2011 at 11:21 PM..
 
Old 06-09-2011, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Stupid response...whatever taxes are normally collected in the area. They are residents.
Stupid response? Again, with the personal attacks. Are you unwilling or simply incapable of engaging in civil debate? I disagree with most of your posts, but I have yet to refer to them as stupid. If you cannot respond to my posts with maturity and civility, please do not respond at all.

An estimated 47% of U.S. citizens pay no taxes due to their low wages and tax credits. Why on earth would you believe an unskilled, uneducated, non-English-speaking illegal alien would actually earn enough to pay for the tax-funded college education of their children? Heck, they donít even earn enough to cover the costs for their childrenís K-12 education.

Moreover, regardless of what taxes they may or may not pay, they are not citizens of this country. Therefore, they should not be entitled to receive the same tax-funded benefits as citizens. In addition, they are not legal residents, they are interlopers, and should be treated accordingly. In this country we do not generally reward lawbreakers, and illegal aliens should not be an exception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Another idiotic response. We have no place near enough enforcement to deport 10% per year. In fact we can only keep it from expanding in good years.
Another personal attack. My comments are not idiotic simply because you disagree. Learn the difference. Why is the notion of enforcement so difficult for you to comprehend? And, if as you claim, we cannot enforce our current laws, how will we enforce our laws if we grant another amnesty? What magical transformation will occur within our government?

I donít know how many times I must repeat this, but AGAIN, mass deportations will NOT be necessary if we simply enforce our current laws. Have you not noticed the behavior of illegals at the mere threat of enforcement? I am beginning to believe you are being paid to beat the deportation drum.

We will rid our country of this scourge, even if it requires citizen intervention. And, you can interpret that however you choose. We will not allow illegal aliens to destroy our country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
I am not the one ascerting facts..you are. And your position is likely hopelessly stupid. That, of course, is why you refuse to defend it.
Wow! A third personal attack. Youíre on a roll. Since you are obviously too lazy to research this info, I will oblige, only to prove my point.

Quote:
In Texas, where the state comptroller estimates illegal immigrants cost hospitals $1.3 billion in 2006, the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston is considering denying cancer care to such immigrants.
Quote:
One thing is clear: Undocumented immigrants are driving up the number of people without health insurance. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 59% of the nation's illegal immigrants are uninsured, compared with 25% of legal immigrants and 14% of U.S. citizens. Illegal immigrants represent about 15% of the nation's 47 million uninsured people ó and about 30% of the increase since 1980.
Quote:
From 2001 to 2004, spending for emergency Medicaid for illegal immigrants rose by 28% in North Carolina, said a March 2007 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Researchers cited increases in childbirth and prenatal care, as well as injuries and chronic disease complications.
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At the state and local level, illegal immigrants already cost more in public services such as education and health care than they pay in taxes, the Congressional Budget Office reported recently. Illegal immigrants make up less than 5% of the cost in most states, but closer to 10% in some California counties. In 2000, counties along the Mexican border lost more than $800 million in health care services for which they were not paid; about 25% of that went to care for illegal immigrants, according to a report by the United States/Mexico Border Counties Coalition.
Quote:
Even among children, 53% are uninsured, according to Jeffrey Passel of the Pew Hispanic Center. That compares with 9% of U.S. citizens' children.
Rising health care costs put focus on illegal immigrants - USATODAY.com

There is much, much more, but itís late and I am going to bed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Just basic humanity. A foreign concept?
Basic humanity does not require a country to become a doormat for miscreants and parasites. Nor does it require a country to provide for foreigners to the detriment of its own citizens.


Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
And yes you are a hopeless extremist unable to even consider possible solutions to the problem.

And you likely condemn us all to it getting much worse.
I really donít give a flying fork what you think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Are you proud?
Yes, I am. Good night.
 
Old 06-09-2011, 11:13 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Yawn...

Sorry...


One of your posts has been reported for personal insults.

As the saying goes when you have the facts on your side pound the facts. When you have the jury on your side pound the jury. When you have neither pound the table.

Since you have neither the facts on your side (as illegal aliens are nothing but a nightmare for most Americans) nor the jury (as most Americans do not support your stance on endless amnesty and surrender) you are clearly pounding the table.

You could stand on top of it until it splinters and you still wouldn't have a convincing argument. Continued massive importation of low skilled Latino migrants (let alone handing them access to American tax dollars) is simply a stupid idea.
 
Old 06-09-2011, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,454 posts, read 7,553,239 times
Reputation: 12124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Let Mexico and Latin America solve their own damned overpopulation problems. Our nation and theirs will be far better off.
Sadly, it is a one way street. Calderon and the rest of Mexico's elite laugh at the U.S. the same way illegals do, just for different reasons. Illegals get to benefit off of our laxed system and live a better life than they ever had in Mexico. The poor leaving Mexico just widens the disparity gap between the elite and the dirt poor. The U.S. is a laughing stock to Mexico regardless of what end of the financial spectrum it's looked at. Obama, as well as most politicians, are simply tools that are leading to our demise as a nation.
 
Old 06-09-2011, 11:19 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Illegal aliens are not uninsured. They're just not insured in this country. As 60% are from Mexico and Mexico has national health insurance all they have to do to get coverage is go home. We need to do everything we can to make sure they do just that including billing Mexico and refusing to providing services in Spanish.

We owe them nothing.
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