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Old 06-12-2011, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
We simply must reduce the illegal population to something less than half a miiion and then rigidly enforce the immigration laws. We declare success when we show we can maintain the illegal population under a half million and sustain it there. Preferably coming down slowly.

To do that we offer regularization to the present illegal population. Call in amnesty if you like. I leave the detail to the bureaucrats. It must be nice enough that virtually all subscribe...but no nicer. Ten year program? Pay penalities? Back taxes? Whatever works. Make it difficult but not impossible. These generally are relatively poor people so penalties and costs need to be modest..but high enough that the citizenship will be appreciated when given.

Expand ICE to whatever it takes to keep the number of illegals from rising. Otherwise we will repeat the 80s debacle.

Perhaps draconian outcome on those who are regularized. Any involvement with new illegals and out they all go.

Set it up right and we could make crossing the border extremely difficult for at least a period of years.
Okay, we grant amnesty (let’s call it what it is) to perhaps 30 million illegals, thus reducing our illegal alien population to less than 500,000. Of the remaining 499,999 illegals, how many do you think will give birth, not once, not twice, but several times? Do you have any idea the annual costs to support the less than 500,000? And, wouldn’t we be accused of separating families if we do not allow them to remain here with their U.S. citizen children?

Furthermore, you haven’t explained how rewarding 30 million will stop the flow of illegals, given that our previous reward for 3 million has resulted in our current mess. You have already knocked the idea of militarization of our borders. So, barring that, exactly how do we stop illegals from coming, particularly, when we are rewarding 30 million with legalization, and allowing an additional 499,999 to remain here unscathed?

Please elaborate on “nice enough, but no nicer,” as well as “make it difficult, but not impossible.” And, why do we even need to be “nice” to people who have no legal right to be here? Why don’t they need to be nice to us, by thanking us for our generosity, and then leaving our country the same way they came?

If we base the penalties on their “relatively poor” status, how would that be fair to legal immigrants who are required to pay thousands, wait their turn in their countries of origin, and are not extended this courtesy? Furthermore, given that they have violated our laws, shouldn’t they have to earn their citizenship, rather than having it handed to them like a cheap raffle ticket? People don’t generally appreciate things they can obtain too easily, and citizenship is no exception. In addition, you have included no punitive measures, just modest fines. How is that a deterrent to others who may desire to come here illegally? Remember, you have no measures for adequately securing our borders, so illegal immigration will continue.

Please explain how we will have the resources to expand ICE to whatever numbers are necessary after an amnesty, but we somehow simply don’t have the wherewithal to enforce our current laws. Will we need to increase taxes? Or, do we borrow more money from China? And, how is any of this fair to citizens?

So, draconian measures will be okay to employ after an amnesty, but they are unacceptable now? Why? What if, a substantial number of amnestied illegals cavort with illegals, and aid and abet, or even assist in human trafficking? Then what? What if at least 15 or 20 million remain loyal to their countries of origin, and continue to violate our laws by bringing their friends and relatives? How do we rid our country of the amnestied illegals then, but it is an “antis dream” now?

How do we “set it up right?”

You also have not mentioned how we will deal with illegal employers. They are greedy, unscrupulous, and have grown accustomed to cheap labor. What are your plans for eliminating illegal employment? Mind you, it is not only the employers who enjoy the cheap labor, but millions of illegals enjoy a tax-free lifestyle, and would be more than willing to continue to evade taxes. Moreover, lawless behavior won’t change overnight with the passage of a law.

Your plan sounds good for illegals, but how does this country benefit by legalizing millions of unskilled, uneducated, low-wage earners, who will not add to our tax base in any appreciable manner? Mind you, all will eventually become eligible for ALL tax-funded benefits. I’m sorry, but this is a plan we simply cannot afford.

 
Old 06-15-2011, 02:11 PM
 
1,410 posts, read 1,736,814 times
Reputation: 1156
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreasuredJewel View Post
I do not have identification and I still get treated at the hospital. It is not a big deal. A lot of us do this when we cant afford insurance.
How do you manage this and still get admitted??
Last time I had to go to a hospital, you wouldn't believe all the personal info they shook me down for before I got admitted.

Also, it was really nasty back there once I did get admitted hours later. There was blood all over the hallway floor and nobody cleaning it up! Can you say AIDS?
 
Old 06-15-2011, 02:26 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by temazepam View Post
How do you manage this and still get admitted??
Last time I had to go to a hospital, you wouldn't believe all the personal info they shook me down for before I got admitted.

Also, it was really nasty back there once I did get admitted hours later. There was blood all over the hallway floor and nobody cleaning it up! Can you say AIDS?
That's what I would like to know. Not having insurance is one thing but not having any I.D.? That makes no sense to me at all.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:10 PM
 
1,410 posts, read 1,736,814 times
Reputation: 1156
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
We simply must reduce the illegal population to something less than half a miiion and then rigidly enforce the immigration laws. We declare success when we show we can maintain the illegal population under a half million and sustain it there. Preferably coming down slowly.

To do that we offer regularization to the present illegal population. Call in amnesty if you like. I leave the detail to the bureaucrats. It must be nice enough that virtually all subscribe...but no nicer. Ten year program? Pay penalities? Back taxes? Whatever works. Make it difficult but not impossible. These generally are relatively poor people so penalties and costs need to be modest..but high enough that the citizenship will be appreciated when given.

Expand ICE to whatever it takes to keep the number of illegals from rising. Otherwise we will repeat the 80s debacle.

Perhaps draconian outcome on those who are regularized. Any involvement with new illegals and out they all go.

Set it up right and we could make crossing the border extremely difficult for at least a period of years.

How does that reduce that population? Key word: reduce
Because, really, that population is still there in the same numbers, the only thing that's changed is their status.
"Regularization" - gotta love it! Nice euphemism.
If I take enough Milk of Magnesium, will I be 'regularized'? Will illegal aliens get free treatment for constipation at hospitals? (I kid!)
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:22 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,515 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Do you have any idea the annual costs to support the less than 500,000?
Do you? Drop the fear-mongering bomb on us please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
People don’t generally appreciate things they can obtain too easily, and citizenship is no exception.
Yeah traveling through the desert for thousands of miles to work illegally is sure the easy way....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Mind you, it is not only the employers who enjoy the cheap labor, but millions of illegals enjoy a tax-free lifestyle, and would be more than willing to continue to evade taxes.
An estimated 75% of illegals pay taxes. We already went over this, even though you didn't like the stats given (by Social Security and the CBO lol) you have yet to provide other sources. Perhaps the Bureau of Prisons has a study? I mean, for all the citations you ask for and hilariously won't accept as legit, let's see this study showing Mexicans wanting to dodge taxes rofl. I won't hold my breath.
Quote:
Your plan sounds good for illegals, but how does this country benefit by legalizing millions of unskilled, uneducated, low-wage earners, who will not add to our tax base in any appreciable manner? Mind you, all will eventually become eligible for ALL tax-funded benefits. I’m sorry, but this is a plan we simply cannot afford.
No, it's completely conducive to that and like economics 101. A pool of cheap labor willing to work hard is very, very good for the economy. It allows many basic goods and services to be cheap, and allow us to spend our money elsewhere, which encourages growth. Growth produces jobs.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:28 PM
 
Location: colorado
2,788 posts, read 4,236,551 times
Reputation: 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Someone in College is not poor. Where do you come up with this carp? Don't you think Mexico and Guatemala could use a few smart people?

Someone in college isn't poor?
You are so funny..
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:39 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Do you? Drop the fear-mongering bomb on us please. Yeah traveling through the desert for thousands of miles to work illegally is sure the easy way.... An estimated 75% of illegals pay taxes. We already went over this, even though you didn't like the stats given (by Social Security and the CBO lol) you have yet to provide other sources. Perhaps the Bureau of Prisons has a study? I mean, for all the citations you ask for and hilariously won't accept as legit, let's see this study showing Mexicans wanting to dodge taxes rofl. I won't hold my breath. No, it's completely conducive to that and like economics 101. A pool of cheap labor willing to work hard is very, very good for the economy. It allows many basic goods and services to be cheap, and allow us to spend our money elsewhere, which encourages growth. Growth produces jobs.
The employers do not pass on any or very little in the way of cheap prices to the consumers. They merely pocket the extra profits. What ever so-called savings there are is being swallowed up by higher taxes to cover these illegal's social costs. This so-called cheap labor is taking jobs from blue collar and young adult American workers. How is that a great deal for them?

We need to curb our population growth also. Our natural resouces are not unlimited. Illegal immigration is putting additional demands on our schools, jails and hospitals. It is causing an unwanted demographic change by too many from one particular national/ethnic group. We have limits on legal immigration for the reasons above. Illegal immigration is destroying our common sense approach to immigration.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:43 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,515 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The employers do not pass on any or very little in the way of cheap prices to the consumers. They merely pocket the extra profits. What ever so-called savings there are is being swallowed up by higher taxes to cover these illegal's social costs. This so-called cheap labor is taking jobs from blue collar and young adult American workers. How is that a great deal for them?
Citation needed on farmers "pocketing the extra profits".

Where are all these workers in GA now that there are 11000 job openings and fruit is going to waste because they can't get enough criminals on probation to harvest it?
Quote:
We need to curb our population growth also. Our natural resouces are not unlimited. Illegal immigration is putting additional demands on our schools, jails and hospitals. It is causing an unwanted demographic change by too many from one particular national/ethnic group. We have limits on legal immigration for the reasons above. Illegal immigration is destroying our common sense approach to immigration.
Yea not xenophobic or racist at all are you guys? You spend 1000s of posts denying it then one little slip up shows your colors.

We are not nearly as populated as other countries lol.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,360,350 times
Reputation: 1570
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Yeah traveling through the desert for thousands of miles to work illegally is sure the easy way....
It is when you know that you will have something turn up in your background check which would prevent you from being granted permission to LEGALLY reside in the United States. In this case, it IS the easy way for undesirable potential immigrants. Even serial killers have been known to travel hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of miles to commit their illegal acts. Travelling thousands of miles through the desert does not negate the illegality of their actions.


Quote:
A pool of cheap labor willing to work hard is very, very good for the economy. It allows many basic goods and services to be cheap, and allow us to spend our money elsewhere, which encourages growth. Growth produces jobs.
Good for who? The only ones being employed are illegals and Hispanic 'minorities', therefore, they are the only ones who have the resouces to SPEND. I don't see any growth or jobs for the average white American, at least in the area where I live. The pittance I get from unemployment doesn't allow for very much spending on all these cheap products the illegals are producing.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,360,350 times
Reputation: 1570
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Yea not xenophobic or racist at all are you guys? You spend 1000s of posts denying it then one little slip up shows your colors.
Its not racist or xenophobic, its plain and simple FACT which any idiot can see if they happen to open up their eyes, take off the rose tinted glasses and have a good, honest look around.

Those of us who live in Southern California only have to go to any stores, restaurants and fast food places and count how many employees are Hispanic and compare that with how FEW whites, blacks and Asians are employed in any establishment.
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