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Old 06-09-2011, 08:01 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,530,126 times
Reputation: 2661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Does it matter? They can't legally get a job so what use is that degree unless they move home.
Who?

The Poor? They are not going away. They are home.

 
Old 06-09-2011, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,017,008 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Legal immigrants, who waited their turn, should recieve all benefits of being a citizen...
Meaning they should be allowed to vote? Why would they then apply to naturalize? Just so they don't have to carry their Resident Cards?
 
Old 06-09-2011, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,827,658 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Nope...perfectly rational if you believe those particular students are not going to be deported. Based on the last 30 years experience do you really believe we are going to eventually deport those students?
If they are here illegally, they are deportable. Correct? And, no, we should not offer in-state tuition to illegal aliens. Havenít we already paid enough for their K-12 education? Now, we should subsidize college as well? If illegals want a college education, they should be required to pay the higher foreign student rates. Actually, they should pay rates higher than foreign students here on visas. After all, why should we treat foreign interlopers better than foreigners who have enough respect for our country to abide by our laws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Playing cute again are we?
Playing cute? Please elaborate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
What percentage?
If you want exact percentages, I suggest you Google. But, letís not play games. Common sense dictates a 5th grade education generally will not land one a six-figure salary. Or, are you suggesting most illegal aliens are educated and wealthy?

Quote:
WASHINGTON ó Growing numbers of children of illegal immigrants are being born in the United States, and they are nearly twice as likely to live in poverty than those with American-born parents, a report says.

The study released Tuesday by the Pew Hispanic Center highlights a growing dilemma in the immigration debate: Illegal immigrants' children born in the U.S. are American citizens, yet they struggle in poverty and uncertainty along with parents who fear deportation, toil largely in low-wage jobs and face layoffs in an ailing economy.

ēOne-third of the children of illegal immigrants live in poverty, nearly double the rate for children of U.S.-born parents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
You wish to deny all the poor or the illegal poor or the poor who speak english badly? Which poor?
No, I do not believe we should deny poor citizens benefits. However, for the umpteenth time, I believe we should deny ALL benefits to illegal aliens. Hopefully, this finally clarifies my position.
 
Old 06-09-2011, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,116 posts, read 20,176,655 times
Reputation: 8204
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
If an illegal goes to a hospital to have a baby or to treat an injury, why are they not taken into custody after they are treated. I recognize that the hospital cannot refuse them treatment, but what happens afterwards? Do they just release them and pass the bill to the taxpayers? The mission has already been accomplished (Anchor baby dropped). Is ICE contacted at all? How does this work? If I walked into an emergency room bleeding without identification and all I said was "No speka englash", what would I experience?

How about with obtaining a drivers liscense? How de we issue them to known illegals. The Department of Transportation is a federal agency. Do they not uphold our laws?

How do states expect to be able to enforce immigration policy if they can't even take care of business under these two circumstances. Everyday I see posts on this forum about what we can do to thwart illegal immigration. Build a high wall with electrical barbed wire atop it. Put an electronic monitor on their ankle. Yada Yada Yada....... Why go through any of this trouble when we just let them abuse our system with our blessings right in front of our eyes?

Do I just not get it??? What am I missing? How is it that a trip to the hospital for a normal person costs thousands upon thousands of dollars, but they can just waltz in and have a field day at our expense?
The same way Meat Packing Plants and Poultry Plants employ thousands of illegals without being prosecuted filling what used to be good jobs with sub minimum wage illegals
 
Old 06-09-2011, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,827,658 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Who?

The Poor? They are not going away. They are home.
Dream on. This is NOT their home, and it never will be.
 
Old 06-09-2011, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Texas
42,290 posts, read 49,879,075 times
Reputation: 67171
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
If an illegal goes to a hospital to have a baby or to treat an injury, why are they not taken into custody after they are treated. I recognize that the hospital cannot refuse them treatment, but what happens afterwards?

The government doesn't want people dying because they are scared to go the the ER, so they made it illegal to report someone from the hospital.

So you can get reported if you were shot or bit by a dog, but you can't be reported for being illegal.
 
Old 06-09-2011, 08:46 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,530,126 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If they are here illegally, they are deportable. Correct? And, no, we should not offer in-state tuition to illegal aliens. Havenít we already paid enough for their K-12 education? Now, we should subsidize college as well? If illegals want a college education, they should be required to pay the higher foreign student rates. Actually, they should pay rates higher than foreign students here on visas. After all, why should we treat foreign interlopers better than foreigners who have enough respect for our country to abide by our laws?
They live in the area. They pay the taxes for the area. To the degree that the benefit is offered to those who so provide it is reasonble to provide it to those who live there.

Again you duck the question...

Are they really going to be deported? Don't duck. What is the probability that one who graduated from high school 10 years ago has been deported? If they are not going to be deported it is better for the society to educate them as well as they can handle. They pay more taxes as they become better educated.

Quote:
Playing cute? Please elaborate.

If you want exact percentages, I suggest you Google. But, letís not play games. Common sense dictates a 5th grade education generally will not land one a six-figure salary. Or, are you suggesting most illegal aliens are educated and wealthy?
High percentage? What percentage? Where? Are hospitals in the remote midwest better off than those in say Las Vegas?

I suspect that roughly half the illegals have medical insurance or the ability to cover their basic needs for medical attention. You have never been in a low cost clinic where everyone pays but no one speaks English? Certainly some are legal...but certainly some are not.


Quote:
No, I do not believe we should deny poor citizens benefits. However, for the umpteenth time, I believe we should deny ALL benefits to illegal aliens. Hopefully, this finally clarifies my position.
As I said you betray your cause. No reasonable human being wants to see children die in the driveways of hospitals.

You therefore identify yourself as a rather cruel extremist.
 
Old 06-09-2011, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,490 posts, read 7,570,814 times
Reputation: 12185
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
So you are saying that if your Ancestors crossed the Rio Grand or otherwise came in illegally you are somehow reduced? I am a lesser citizen than you because I have a Grandfather who was likely an illegal? Do I get added points for the two whose forebearers came in before the civil war?

Do you understand what you are saying?
I understand exactly what I'm saying. My grandparents came through Ellis Island, worked two jobs, and learned english on their own outside of a schoolyard. They lived poor, and through hard work, achieved the American dream. They achieved their citizenship the way the Founding Fathers had intended. I don't think you are a lesser citizen by any means. I think you, to no fault of your own, are the product of a criminal, and if things were the way they should be, you would be a victim of circumstance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Learn to read between the lines. What Obama was implying is that it makes no difference if one's ancestors came through Ellis Island legally or one's ancestors crossed the Rio Grande illegally. If I remember correctly he was addressing an audience of illegal alien sympathizer Hispanics and that is why he referenced the Rio Grande.
This is EXACTLY what Obama meant. Anyone else find it strange that the audience did not erupt with cheers until Obama mentioned the Rio Grande?.....

[quote=olecapt;19522165]
Quote:
In the western hemisphere we generally go for the at birth citizenship.
Sadly, that is correct. The Founding Fathers could not envision 200+ years ago what would be happening in todays age.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
The same way Meat Packing Plants and Poultry Plants employ thousands of illegals without being prosecuted filling what used to be good jobs with sub minimum wage illegals
Exactly. Their time will come as well. Start levying $100,000 fines for the first offense and see how long that BS continues. "Oh, but the price of food will triple then..." seems to be the argument against that. Somethings gotta give. We'll either pay a little now, or a LOT later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
The government doesn't want people dying because they are scared to go the the ER.
All I can say to that is "Sometimes things happen........".
 
Old 06-09-2011, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,827,658 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
They live in the area. They pay the taxes for the area. To the degree that the benefit is offered to those who so provide it is reasonble to provide it to those who live there.
Sales tax? Oh, please. So, that should qualify them to pay in-state tuition. Well, foreign students and tourists also pay sales tax. Should U.S. taxpayers subsidize the college education of every person who purchases goods in this country?

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Again you duck the question...

Are they really going to be deported? Don't duck. What is the probability that one who graduated from high school 10 years ago has been deported? If they are not going to be deported it is better for the society to educate them as well as they can handle. They pay more taxes as they become better educated.
Again, with your obsession with deportation. We do NOT, I repeat do NOT have to deport illegal aliens. If we enforce ALL of our current laws, and end the BS coddling, they will leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
High percentage? What percentage? Where? Are hospitals in the remote midwest better off than those in say Las Vegas?
Again, Google for percentages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
I suspect that roughly half the illegals have medical insurance or the ability to cover their basic needs for medical attention. You have never been in a low cost clinic where everyone pays but no one speaks English? Certainly some are legal...but certainly some are not.
Perhaps you will provide the stats on the percentage of insured versus uninsured illegal aliens. Also, the amount taxpayers must foot for uninsured illegals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
As I said you betray your cause. No reasonable human being wants to see children die in the driveways of hospitals.

You therefore identify yourself as a rather cruel extremist.
Such melodrama. When did I EVER mention denying ANYONE life-saving emergency medical treatment? I said illegal aliens should be denied ALL benefits, period. Life-saving emergency medical treatment is NOT a benefit.

No, I identify myself as a U.S. taxpayer who is damn tired of being screwed by parasitic illegal aliens. If that makes me an extremist, so be it.
 
Old 06-09-2011, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,116 posts, read 20,176,655 times
Reputation: 8204
[quote=ditchlights;19523857]I understand exactly what I'm saying. My grandparents came through Ellis Island, worked two jobs, and learned english on their own outside of a schoolyard. They lived poor, and through hard work, achieved the American dream. They achieved their citizenship the way the Founding Fathers had intended. I don't think you are a lesser citizen by any means. I think you, to no fault of your own, are the product of a criminal, and if things were the way they should be, you would be a victim of circumstance.



This is EXACTLY what Obama meant. Anyone else find it strange that the audience did not erupt with cheers until Obama mentioned the Rio Grande?.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post

Sadly, that is correct. The Founding Fathers could not envision 200+ years ago what would be happening in todays age.



Exactly. Their time will come as well. Start levying $100,000 fines for the first offense and see how long that BS continues. "Oh, but the price of food will triple then..." seems to be the argument against that. Somethings gotta give. We'll either pay a little now, or a LOT later.



All I can say to that is "Sometimes things happen........".
Those Meat Packing jobs used to be good paying Union Jobs, all the owners have to do is pay a few politicians to look the other way and they can hire thousands of sub minimum wage illegals and destroy the town where the plant is located. In Cochise county AZ, where I live, the owner of a Dry Wall plant got TWO YEARS for employing illegals
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