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Old 06-13-2011, 09:39 PM
 
323 posts, read 428,881 times
Reputation: 575

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophiasmommy View Post
With all due respect you just took a page out of the radical leftist playbook. This bill has absolutely nothing to do with immigrants; why would it, immigrants are legal US citizens who can do whatever they please within the confines of the law. This is about illegal immigrants, and you and the op intentionally made no distinction to put forth your radical leftist agenda.

As a legal immigrant, I take great offense to being compared to people who came into this country illegally, with no respect to our laws. Lemme ask you a question, why do you compare me to people who break the law?
I don't think this poster was meaning to be offensive to legal immigrants - he/she seemed to me to be trying to say that immigrants make America great -

The interesting thing is that even when people are trying to just state an opinion - not really trying to make it personal ( YOU REALLY DON NOT KNOW THESE POSTERS) is that they get sometimes what seems like harsh responses i.e. "radical leftist agenda" I often hesitate to respond on City Data due to folks taking it way to personal versus a healthy debate/discussion and a agree to disagree - it's really scarey sometimes

Interesting thing is that there are conservatives that have similar opinions - I am neither left or right - I just have questions and opinions which change as I gain more knowledge/experiences regarding a subject -

The other thing that is interesting is that there are people who are legally here from other countries that could not have openly have the diversity of opinions that the US is known for - but once some of them assimilate here - they change - no dis respect to you - it is just interesting as I try to answer/ponder grand kids and other younger folks questions
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:16 PM
 
323 posts, read 428,881 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophiasmommy View Post
It doesn't matter what you "believe", despite the fact that they have not been enforced, there is a proper and legal way to become a citizen in this great nation. Laws aren't a buffet, you can't pick and choose which ones you want to recognize and which ones you don't.

Your post is theoretical nonsense. I propose that you spend a month in a 3rd world country, and when you comeback you will never again take for granted how good you have it here.
That is just one of the many reasons people may want to come here - it's the US citizens/businesses/media that make it easy and worth their while to come - I have been to several so called third world countries - I have met people who dream about coming to the US and just as many who were OK with the customs of their home -

No dis respect - just seems like people are not as harsh with the folks that are benefiting from these folks being here -
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:27 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,391,884 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobgob View Post
Sorry, I believe in free markets. You can have you Fascist or Socialist state if you want. That won't make America better. We became a superpower with free enterprise and small government.

Drugs should be legalized. Then the cartels would fall.
I believe in free markets as well. I think businesses are over regulated in many instances. I also don't believe we need unions anymore because there are laws on the books that protect workers in the workplace.

I am not a Socialist or Fascist and name calling just diminishes your argument.

The US did not become a superpower through the use of illegal immigrants. If a business can't survive through legal means than it deserves to fail. I was not in favor of the bail outs. Part of the reason we are losing our position as a superpower IMO is because of globalization. By taking the poverty from other countries we are lowering our standards and weakening our country.

I also believe in small government and think the key responsibility of the federal government is to protect our borders. You are aware of such thing as work visas I would assume?
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:26 AM
 
1,606 posts, read 1,316,506 times
Reputation: 932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophiasmommy View Post
You can bury your head in the sand like an ostrich, but it is a calculated agenda by the far left to paint all of us that are against illegal immigrants as "racist", as evidenced by some posts in this very thread. What they fail to realize is that ones legal status is not a race, ans many, many immigrants like myself are against illegal immigration.

I have not seen those adds, but if they are against legal immigration, then I condemn them. Would you mind posting them? Thanks
In many parts of America, including Alabama where this bill is been signed into law, once people hear that you are in "immigrant" they will treat you the same way as the illegal immigrants who you condemn. Don't think for one second that they'll treat you any better just because you came here legally. There are some people who are against immigration period. Racism and xenophobia is just that... racism and xenophobia.

Count yourself lucky as being able to come here legally. For many people, it is next to impossible to do it legally due to the current laws. If they could come here legally they would. Nobody would choose to be illegal if they had a viable legal option. The same reason you are here are the same reasons the illegal immigrants are here. You are not a better human being than them in any way shape or form.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:40 AM
 
1,606 posts, read 1,316,506 times
Reputation: 932
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennquaker09 View Post
Alabama has some of the lowest taxes in the country. Your tax dollars aren't paying for much of anything. More is sent in than comes out . . .

I'd much rather pay for a hardworking immigrant that wants nothing more than a better life, than those that are American citizens and don't even TRY. It is not criminal for someone to simply want to provide a better life for their kids and themselves. If you think that's criminal then all I have to say is that you might want to go to Jesus with that one. I would like to enter to gates of Heaven one day, and when God judges my heart, I want him to see that I care for others. Think of me however you wish, but I sincerely believe that as a Believer of Jesus Christ, it is our duty to help those that are helpless or less fortunate.


Also:

Native Americans. Remember them?

And, if you're going to be mad about jobs, be angry with politicians and business leaders. Ohh, and China and India, etc. That's where the jobs are. Be mad because their kids learn better and are smarter.
Well said, God bless you. I know many Americans who consider themselves too good to do certain jobs yet they harp on the "illegal immigrants" who do this dirty work for them. The laws of economics is simple, if you want the "illegals" to go away, simply do the dirty work that they are willing to do. I am tired of lazy people sitting on the bums blaming everyone else for their situation but themselves.
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Old 06-14-2011, 07:53 AM
 
199 posts, read 129,073 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
I believe in free markets as well. I think businesses are over regulated in many instances. I also don't believe we need unions anymore because there are laws on the books that protect workers in the workplace.

I am not a Socialist or Fascist and name calling just diminishes your argument.

The US did not become a superpower through the use of illegal immigrants. If a business can't survive through legal means than it deserves to fail. I was not in favor of the bail outs. Part of the reason we are losing our position as a superpower IMO is because of globalization. By taking the poverty from other countries we are lowering our standards and weakening our country.

I also believe in small government and think the key responsibility of the federal government is to protect our borders. You are aware of such thing as work visas I would assume?
You are contradicting now. You claim to be free market and against lots of regulations but you think if business has to break the law it should fail. Make your mind up. You either think some laws are bad for business and don't protect rights or you think "law is the law" and if you don't follow them you are wrong regardless of how immoral or right restricting they are; you can't have it both ways.And yes we have unalienable rights without "law". There are rights we are just born with and the law violates them constantly.
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Old 06-14-2011, 10:18 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,391,884 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy View Post
Well said, God bless you. I know many Americans who consider themselves too good to do certain jobs yet they harp on the "illegal immigrants" who do this dirty work for them. The laws of economics is simple, if you want the "illegals" to go away, simply do the dirty work that they are willing to do. I am tired of lazy people sitting on the bums blaming everyone else for their situation but themselves.

It's my understanding that this law is supposed to address that problem. If employers are penalized for hiring illegals there will be jobs for those that some say are unwilling to do them. We need to provide jobs for those lazy people sitting on their bums. Those are your words, not mine.

And God bless you for your concern for citizens of the USA.
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:56 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,391,884 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobgob View Post
You are contradicting now. You claim to be free market and against lots of regulations but you think if business has to break the law it should fail.

My responses are in bold print.

I am not contradicting. I said I believe businesses are over regulated in some ways. The government takes a broad view at writing laws and sometimes regulations are put into places they aren't necessary. Now days bills are 2000 pages long and no one knows what's in them until it's too late. It's ridiculous.


Make your mind up. You either think some laws are bad for business and don't protect rights or you think "law is the law" and if you don't follow them you are wrong regardless of how immoral or right restricting they are; you can't have it both ways.


As I said, I believe some laws aren't appropriate but they are still the law. And whether I think they are right or not I have to follow them or pay the consequences. Some laws are written to protect businesses and some are written to protect workers...so I guess it is "both ways", right?

In the instance of illegals working in this country, businesses were given the option of work visas to employ people when there weren't enough workers to fill the positions. Workers were protected by the fact that work visas were issued according to the economics at the moment and job availability to citizens. See, another way you you can have it both ways.

What happened was, businesses tried to get around the work visas and began hiring illegals that hadn't received work visas, rendering the worker an illegal and the business in violation of the law. You seem to only see this as immoral from the standpoint that the illegal wants a job and is willing to do it cheaper. The reason an illegal can work cheaper than a citizen is because he pays no taxes yet is allowed all the entitlement that tax payers are providing. That's a great deal for the illegal and the business owner but it sure does stick it to the taxpayer. Meanwhile, we have more citizens on welfare and unemployment while illegals and businesses skim the cream off the top so to speak.


And yes we have unalienable rights without "law". There are rights we are just born with and the law violates them constantly.
What rights exactly are you referring to? And what laws exactly are you referring to? Does anyone have the right to break a law when the law doesn't benefit them?


I am a smoker. I think it is my right to do what ever I want with my money and my body. But there are laws in place about smoking these days. That's because my right to smoke sometimes infringes on the right of those that choose not to. I can go ahead and smoke wherever I want to, but if I get caught I pay the price.

It works the same way for those that come here illegally to work. They want the job even though they know it's against the law. If they get caught, they pay the price and get deported. The job they are taking is infringing on the rights of citizens to be gainfully employed and sell their skills in a workforce that isn't bloated by a disproportionate number of people in the workforce. Work visas were a means of keeping our workforce in balance with available jobs. When those laws are ignored, the balance is tilted...in this case in favor of businesses that want cheap labor.
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:11 PM
 
199 posts, read 129,073 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
What rights exactly are you referring to? And what laws exactly are you referring to? Does anyone have the right to break a law when the law doesn't benefit them?


I am a smoker. I think it is my right to do what ever I want with my money and my body. But there are laws in place about smoking these days. That's because my right to smoke sometimes infringes on the right of those that choose not to. I can go ahead and smoke wherever I want to, but if I get caught I pay the price.

It works the same way for those that come here illegally to work. They want the job even though they know it's against the law. If they get caught, they pay the price and get deported. The job they are taking is infringing on the rights of citizens to be gainfully employed and sell their skills in a workforce that isn't bloated by a disproportionate number of people in the workforce. Work visas were a means of keeping our workforce in balance with available jobs. When those laws are ignored, the balance is tilted...in this case in favor of businesses that want cheap labor.
You aren't born with the "right" to a job. You have the right to pursue them, but no one has the right to use the state to give them one any more then they do to make a doctor give them healthcare. I was against the law for my great grandparents to even own themselves. I guess by your own logic they had no natural "right" to freedom becuase it went against law.
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:16 PM
 
5,340 posts, read 5,255,103 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4sankofa View Post
I don't think this poster was meaning to be offensive to legal immigrants - he/she seemed to me to be trying to say that immigrants make America great -

The interesting thing is that even when people are trying to just state an opinion - not really trying to make it personal ( YOU REALLY DON NOT KNOW THESE POSTERS) is that they get sometimes what seems like harsh responses i.e. "radical leftist agenda" I often hesitate to respond on City Data due to folks taking it way to personal versus a healthy debate/discussion and a agree to disagree - it's really scarey sometimes

Interesting thing is that there are conservatives that have similar opinions - I am neither left or right - I just have questions and opinions which change as I gain more knowledge/experiences regarding a subject -

The other thing that is interesting is that there are people who are legally here from other countries that could not have openly have the diversity of opinions that the US is known for - but once some of them assimilate here - they change - no dis respect to you - it is just interesting as I try to answer/ponder grand kids and other younger folks questions
The problem is that it is the left, and only the left that never makes a distinction between legal and illegal immigrants and believe me you, that is for a very specific agenda. It is offensive to not distinguish between those here legally and those that broke the law.
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