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Old 06-14-2011, 10:01 PM
 
199 posts, read 129,362 times
Reputation: 86

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Yes, it was a nice strawman you tried to interject. Your great grandparents would be proud. And no one has the moral or natural right to take something that doesn't belong to them. Sorry, it's stealing plain and simple. It's not a hard concept, to use your words.

I have no idea what the second point is that you're trying to make. But as far as the fair tax goes I'm not necessarily against it. However, it won't magically create jobs for those that have had theirs displaced through illegal immigration.
Good,so you agree that the whole"law is the law" dogma wrong. So why do you support it?

Fair tax eliminates the tax burden issue of illegal immigrants. If an employer wants cheap labor he will get it here or leave so there is no fighting that.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:59 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,395,346 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobgob View Post
Good,so you agree that the whole"law is the law" dogma wrong. So why do you support it?

Fair tax eliminates the tax burden issue of illegal immigrants. If an employer wants cheap labor he will get it here or leave so there is no fighting that.

If the "law is the law" is dogma, do we do away with all laws? Or just the ones you don't agree with? If we open our borders to anyone I wouldn't have to go through a screener or pat down at an airport. I guess we could do away with homeland security. That would definitely save the country some money. Is that the goal of the open border folks? I honestly don't know so I'm asking.

If businesses feel so strongly about hiring on the side because the laws are wrong, then they shouldn't have a problem paying for all expenses incurred when they are caught such as incarceration, attorneys, any entitlements received by those they chose to employ, and deportation costs for the entire families involved. Businesses get subsidies and tax cuts because they are hiring CITIZENS...It is my opinion they are double dipping when they chose to leave these expenses on the back of taxpayers in their wake.

You also didn't tell me how you felt about the Civil Rights Act. Is that part of your dogma claim as well?

You can also raise the issue of the fair tax but since we don't utilize that system it's a moot point. But it does make me wonder why you think it's so important for the United States to make so many changes to our system for those that aren't inclined to try to work for change in the country that holds their allegiance. I keep hearing that we are the lazy ones so I can't get this question out of my mind.

We allow more immigrants into our country than any other. We are the only country in the world that still allows birthright citizenship. We have people waiting in the wings that are trying to do the right thing and come into the country legally. The $7000.00 that an illegal pays a coyote to bring them here would go a long way toward legal immigration. And I know a lot of citizens that don't have $7000.00 in their pockets right now so I guess the reason for the influx is not abject poverty.

IMO, the greed of businesses and the underhanded vote pandering going on is not good for the country. Neither is taking on the poverty of another country. We have our own.
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Old 06-15-2011, 04:30 PM
 
199 posts, read 129,362 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
If the "law is the law" is dogma, do we do away with all laws? Or just the ones you don't agree with? If we open our borders to anyone I wouldn't have to go through a screener or pat down at an airport. I guess we could do away with homeland security. That would definitely save the country some money. Is that the goal of the open border folks? I honestly don't know so I'm asking.

If businesses feel so strongly about hiring on the side because the laws are wrong, then they shouldn't have a problem paying for all expenses incurred when they are caught such as incarceration, attorneys, any entitlements received by those they chose to employ, and deportation costs for the entire families involved. Businesses get subsidies and tax cuts because they are hiring CITIZENS...It is my opinion they are double dipping when they chose to leave these expenses on the back of taxpayers in their wake.

You also didn't tell me how you felt about the Civil Rights Act. Is that part of your dogma claim as well?

You can also raise the issue of the fair tax but since we don't utilize that system it's a moot point. But it does make me wonder why you think it's so important for the United States to make so many changes to our system for those that aren't inclined to try to work for change in the country that holds their allegiance. I keep hearing that we are the lazy ones so I can't get this question out of my mind.

We allow more immigrants into our country than any other. We are the only country in the world that still allows birthright citizenship. We have people waiting in the wings that are trying to do the right thing and come into the country legally. The $7000.00 that an illegal pays a coyote to bring them here would go a long way toward legal immigration. And I know a lot of citizens that don't have $7000.00 in their pockets right now so I guess the reason for the influx is not abject poverty.

IMO, the greed of businesses and the underhanded vote pandering going on is not good for the country. Neither is taking on the poverty of another country. We have our own.


1. If you think laws = absolute morality then your a sociopath. Every law ever made and still in existence does not protect a persons natural rights as a human being , many condoning rape and slavery and if you can't understand that then there is no point in discussing morals or rights with you.

2. Civil rights didn't give black people rights. As human beings we were born with the right to be free and treated equally and the laws just finally caught up to recognize that with civil rights.

3.fair tax is good for everyone . Read up on it. Businesses are going to either leave or get their cheap labor or raise prices. No matter how much you want regulate or punish them for this they will act in their best interest and if that means pulling up shop to china or raising prices they will.

4. No one said anything about open borders. Just common sense.
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:02 PM
 
722 posts, read 1,541,004 times
Reputation: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobgob View Post
1. If you think laws = absolute morality then your a sociopath. Every law ever made and still in existence does not protect a persons natural rights as a human being , many condoning rape and slavery and if you can't understand that then there is no point in discussing morals or rights with you.

2. Civil rights didn't give black people rights. As human beings we were born with the right to be free and treated equally and the laws just finally caught up to recognize that with civil rights.

3.fair tax is good for everyone . Read up on it. Businesses are going to either leave or get their cheap labor or raise prices. No matter how much you want regulate or punish them for this they will act in their best interest and if that means pulling up shop to china or raising prices they will.

4. No one said anything about open borders. Just common sense.
Well that is what you guys want. The immigration laws are designed to protect Americans. You are just another left wing looney toon looking for more Democrat votes, like your idol Obama.
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:16 PM
 
199 posts, read 129,362 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by brajohns81 View Post
Well that is what you guys want. The immigration laws are designed to protect Americans. You are just another left wing looney toon looking for more Democrat votes, like your idol Obama.
Didn't know leftist democrats had starting arguing for free markets and fair tax. I guess people are starting to realize.
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Old 06-15-2011, 06:52 PM
 
8,287 posts, read 11,523,519 times
Reputation: 4938
I had no idea Alabama had a "illegal" Immigration problem! I just figured your state was full of racists. "cough" Selma "cough"!
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Old 06-15-2011, 06:56 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,395,346 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob View Post
I had no idea Alabama had a "illegal" Immigration problem! I just figured your state was full of racists. "cough" Selma "cough"!

Sounds like you need to get out more!
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:19 PM
 
93 posts, read 296,477 times
Reputation: 103
The race card is sooo over used!...You know the magentic strip on that thing is busted all to HeII! lol
Seriously!...If a black man tries to shoot a police officer and is smacked around, its called racism, you don't agree with a black President , it is then called racism, do not believe in foreigners jumping the border and eating up government money/jobs like roaches, that is also called racism. Liberal media has alot of air in their brain, called "farts". They are not living in the real world and then people who can not think for themselves jump the bandwagon and want to follow their favorite celebrity or have their college institution tell them WHAT to think instead of HOW to think. You morons want your beliefs pre-packaged in a nice little liberal happy meal, which is throwing our country to wolves!!! This is why the common sense of ILLLEGAL immigration is a ridiculous argument, with these yuppies who want their apples polished for 5 cent while pretending to be the "new hippy movement". These are the same type pf people who do not support our military, but when the next thing blows up will want their A$$es covered!....People if you want an open border, maybe you should go to Mexico! Arribbbba!!! Adiossss!
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:20 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,395,346 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobgob View Post
1. If you think laws = absolute morality then your a sociopath. Every law ever made and still in existence does not protect a persons natural rights as a human being , many condoning rape and slavery and if you can't understand that then there is no point in discussing morals or rights with you.

My responses are in bold.

I'm not discussing morals or rights with you. We are talking about the illegal immigration law. I don't appreciate being called names but I realize it is a tactic one uses when they are losing an argument.

2. Civil rights didn't give black people rights. As human beings we were born with the right to be free and treated equally and the laws just finally caught up to recognize that with civil rights.

I agree. But is this one of the laws you think is no longer necessary? I realize "the law is the law" is just dogma.

3.fair tax is good for everyone . Read up on it. Businesses are going to either leave or get their cheap labor or raise prices. No matter how much you want regulate or punish them for this they will act in their best interest and if that means pulling up shop to china or raising prices they will.

I have read up on the Fair Tax. I told you many posts ago that I didn't have a problem with it. However, we aren't using the Fair Tax so it doesn't play a part in this thread.

If businesses can pull up a farm or meat packing plant and move it to China I want to watch it happen. If they raise prices it gives me the choice of whether I think their product is worth it or not.

4. No one said anything about open borders. Just common sense.
You said in your point number 2 that we should all be treated equally. I agree. And I don't think people are being treated equally when we have people waiting in line to come to this country legally but we turn a blind eye to those that take the easy way out. I'm sure your common sense will tell you that if you want to be treated equally you also have to treat others equally.
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:35 PM
 
93 posts, read 296,477 times
Reputation: 103
If there are people here who want to help Mexico without forcing help from everyone's pocket who can barely make it in a recession, I can suggest a few incredible volunteer groups for you! You can go there and show how open minded and liberal you are and give back with your own sweat, safety and money!!
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