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Old 06-15-2011, 07:50 PM
 
199 posts, read 128,741 times
Reputation: 86

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
My responses are in bold.

I'm not discussing morals or rights with you. We are talking about the illegal immigration law. I don't appreciate being called names but I realize it is a tactic one uses when they are losing an argument.
Please tell me where I called you anything. If you don't think "law is the law" then no "insult" was given.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
I agree. But is this one of the laws you think is no longer necessary? I realize "the law is the law" is just dogma.
"civil rights" isn't a law in of itself. I don't think we should tell any private enterprise or individual how they should treat or respect another person as long as they are infringing on that person natural rights. I do however agree with the part the government recognize a person as equal regardless of race. It is less a "law" that black be treated like any other citizen then it is just being fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
I have read up on the Fair Tax. I told you many posts ago that I didn't have a problem with it. However, we aren't using the Fair Tax so it doesn't play a part in this thread.

If businesses can pull up a farm or meat packing plant and move it to China I want to watch it happen. If they raise prices it gives me the choice of whether I think their product is worth it or not.
You wont have a choice except to import it( destroying the local market) or pay the price. You don't get a choice with food unless you are farmer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
You said in your point number 2 that we should all be treated equally. I agree. And I don't think people are being treated equally when we have people waiting in line to come to this country legally but we turn a blind eye to those that take the easy way out. I'm sure your common sense will tell you that if you want to be treated equally you also have to treat others equally.
The laws need to reflect the new global reality. Cheap labor is all around. Most of our food comes for other places because. If we want to compete we need to have cheap labor or we can start importing more of our food or paying much more for it.
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:05 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,386,280 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobgob View Post
Please tell me where I called you anything. If you don't think "law is the law" then no "insult" was given.

My responses are in bold.

At post #164 you called me a sociopath. I'm not sure you know what it means because it is definitely out of context here. Whether or not I agree with your "law is the law" gives you no right to call me names. You should treat me with the same respect that you think you deserve.



"civil rights" isn't a law in of itself. I don't think we should tell any private enterprise or individual how they should treat or respect another person as long as they are infringing on that person natural rights. I do however agree with the part the government recognize a person as equal regardless of race. It is less a "law" that black be treated like any other citizen then it is just being fair.

Well, I've asked you repeatedly what you think natural rights are and you keep ignoring it. You are cherry picking parts of laws that pertain to subsets of people while ignoring anything that doesn't pertain to you specifically. And in the same sentence you are speaking of being FAIR to citizens. We are all equal, remember?

You wont have a choice except to import it( destroying the local market) or pay the price. You don't get a choice with food unless you are farmer.

Well, if someone can move a farm to China I would agree that their market has been destroyed, LOL. I saw that the Governor of Georgia, I believe, is proposing that farmers hire people on parole to work the fields. This idea helps the farmers and also helps citizens in our country try to create a new start. You see, if you take some time and think things through without over reacting there are usually solutions to be found and in the end the sky doesn't fall.


The laws need to reflect the new global reality. Cheap labor is all around. Most of our food comes for other places because. If we want to compete we need to have cheap labor or we can start importing more of our food or paying much more for it.
Well, as of now, we are still a sovereign nation. When we start living under the rules that the UN would impose there will no longer be competition. The UN wants the wealth of all nations to be equal. That's why they think it is a crime of humanity if we don't take in all the worlds poor. And as far as the only choices you seem to be able to imagine, cheap labor or paying more for food, don't they kind of equalize each other? I mean, if I am working for less money and paying the same amount for food, isn't that the same as an increase in price? Or if I am unable to work and have no money it doesn't matter much what the price of food is does it?

It seems as if you want to live under the laws of this country that protect you, as a citizen (I am assuming) but want to overlook the laws that protect the rest of our citizenry. YOU want to be treated fairly but to he11 with the rest of the citizens of this country. And you want to talk about people being fair? LMAO!!!!!

And you still haven't told me how you think it's fair, moral, showing equality or any of your other discriptive words that people that have been waiting in line to come here legally get shafted by those that don't follow the laws.

Last edited by Isitmeorarethingsnuts?; 06-15-2011 at 11:11 PM.. Reason: Adding
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:38 AM
 
93 posts, read 295,515 times
Reputation: 103
EXACTLY!

Isitme, Thanks for the common sense, I was losing oxygen, because the BS had started to rise above my chin!
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Jacksonville, Florida at last
98 posts, read 144,812 times
Reputation: 55
It is just so hard, sometimes, to tell if a poster is functioning on oxygen or on venom.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:52 AM
 
199 posts, read 128,741 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Well, as of now, we are still a sovereign nation. When we start living under the rules that the UN would impose there will no longer be competition. The UN wants the wealth of all nations to be equal. That's why they think it is a crime of humanity if we don't take in all the worlds poor. And as far as the only choices you seem to be able to imagine, cheap labor or paying more for food, don't they kind of equalize each other? I mean, if I am working for less money and paying the same amount for food, isn't that the same as an increase in price? Or if I am unable to work and have no money it doesn't matter much what the price of food is does it?

It seems as if you want to live under the laws of this country that protect you, as a citizen (I am assuming) but want to overlook the laws that protect the rest of our citizenry. YOU want to be treated fairly but to he11 with the rest of the citizens of this country. And you want to talk about people being fair? LMAO!!!!!

And you still haven't told me how you think it's fair, moral, showing equality or any of your other discriptive words that people that have been waiting in line to come here legally get shafted by those that don't follow the laws.
We have basic property rights without a countries law to justify or enforce them. Look up prperty rights if you STILL dobt understand.What laws am I adovocating for my benifit? How does advocating a law for anothers benifit make them right by default. I mean if Walmart pushed a law to keep others from dropping prices wouldn't benefit them? Does that make the good since it benifit someone?

Making laws that restricts a business owners property rights to higher whoever he wants at whatever wage is infringing on that individuals rights. It isn't governments place to make things "fair". It just can't treat one citizen different from another. That is all civil rights is. You can't equate restricting a persons natural property rights aknowledging them. The "fair"argument is not a proper one here. You sound like socialist now. Things get hard for one group becuase they havent adjusted to the market and you want to make things equal or "fair", then have the nerve to equate business regulations with civil rights. You are a class act.

How are whites not being treated equal? I missed something.

We import most of our food now even if it's not china. That's common knowledge.

Last edited by Hobgob; 06-16-2011 at 07:11 AM..
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:00 PM
 
722 posts, read 1,536,785 times
Reputation: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobgob View Post
Didn't know leftist democrats had starting arguing for free markets and fair tax. I guess people are starting to realize.

Immigration laws are to protect us. I want all 50 states to adopt laws like Arizona and Alabama's. The left just wants to protect potential Democrat votes at the expense of our safety.
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Historic Bessemer Alabama
629 posts, read 3,250,569 times
Reputation: 484
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:45 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,386,280 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobgob View Post
We have basic property rights without a countries law to justify or enforce them. Look up prperty rights if you STILL dobt understand.What laws am I adovocating for my benifit? How does advocating a law for anothers benifit make them right by default. I mean if Walmart pushed a law to keep others from dropping prices wouldn't benefit them? Does that make the good since it benifit someone?

My responses are in bold.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Please provide a link to show me where the government can not enforce laws upon me or it's citizens. Are you saying that businesses can conduct illegal activities on their property and the government can't intervene?

Making laws that restricts a business owners property rights to higher whoever he wants at whatever wage is infringing on that individuals rights. It isn't governments place to make things "fair". It just can't treat one citizen different from another. That is all civil rights is. You can't equate restricting a persons natural property rights acknowledging them. The "fair"argument is not a proper one here. You sound like socialist now. Things get hard for one group because they haven't adjusted to the market and you want to make things equal or "fair", then have the nerve to equate business regulations with civil rights. You are a class act.

It would be very interesting to see how much support could be garnered by someone that thought businesses should have absolutely no regulations. If we could get rid of the Department of Homeland Security, due to you thinking we shouldn't have sovereign borders and also get rid of the Department of Labor, due to you thinking we should have no business regulations, we sure would have a lot more unemployed people. But it appears to me that your argument goes far beyond the scope of what this thread is about. Trust me, I am not a socialist, but again, the name calling isn't necessary. I'm not sure what group you are referring to as not having adjusted to the market. No clue. And, yes, the Civil Rights Act did regulate business in an effort to make things fair. That doesn't take nerve because it is a fact.

How are whites not being treated equal? I missed something.

I missed something too. I have never said anything about whites...search my posts. I'm from a mixed race family so that makes no sense whatsoever. I believe that all citizens in this country should be treated EQUALLY. The CITIZENS of this country pay taxes that go to help those in need when they need a safety net. The CITIZENS do. I didn't mention race I mentioned that people that have paid in to the system should be assured that the tax money they have paid as a form of insurance policy in case of a catastrophe ie losing their job, is there for them when they need it. Those that haven't paid in to the system have no right to use the benefits of our system. None of them. I feel like that is stealing. Taking something that doesn't belong to you is stealing.

You are the one saying the government has no right to enforce the Civil Rights Act for cripes sake!!!!

We import most of our food now even if it's not china. That's common knowledge.

Please post a link proving this claim. It's not common knowledge to me so I would like to see proof.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:15 PM
 
199 posts, read 128,741 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
My responses are in bold.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Please provide a link to show me where the government can not enforce laws upon me or it's citizens. Are you saying that businesses can conduct illegal activities on their property and the government can't intervene?
You are having a conversation with another person. I asked you how I was advocating laws that are only made to benefit a few.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
It would be very interesting to see how much support could be garnered by someone that thought businesses should have absolutely no regulations. If we could get rid of the Department of Homeland Security, due to you thinking we shouldn't have sovereign borders and also get rid of the Department of Labor, due to you thinking we should have no business regulations, we sure would have a lot more unemployed people. But it appears to me that your argument goes far beyond the scope of what this thread is about. Trust me, I am not a socialist, but again, the name calling isn't necessary. I'm not sure what group you are referring to as not having adjusted to the market. No clue. And, yes, the Civil Rights Act did regulate business in an effort to make things fair. That doesn't take nerve because it is a fact.
And I never said I supported business being forced to treat black fair. They are private should be able to and do what they feel as long as they don't violate the minorities property right.The only regulation business needs to make sure they aren't harming or cheating people. They just need to honor their contracts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
I missed something too. I have never said anything about whites...search my posts. I'm from a mixed race family so that makes no sense whatsoever. I believe that all citizens in this country should be treated EQUALLY. The CITIZENS of this country pay taxes that go to help those in need when they need a safety net. The CITIZENS do. I didn't mention race I mentioned that people that have paid in to the system should be assured that the tax money they have paid as a form of insurance policy in case of a catastrophe ie losing their job, is there for them when they need it. Those that haven't paid in to the system have no right to use the benefits of our system. None of them. I feel like that is stealing. Taking something that doesn't belong to you is stealing.

You are the one saying the government has no right to enforce the Civil Rights Act for cripes sake!!!!
Once again a fair tax will make anybody who lives here harbor the burden. If you support the big bloated welfare state then why waste time and money chasing illegals when you can just tax them?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Please post a link proving this claim. It's not common knowledge to me so I would like to see proof.
A good one.
The China Monopoly Over our Food: A Sustainable Food Revolution?

What Share of U.S. Consumed Food Is Imported? - February 2008 (http://www.ers.usda.gov/amberwaves/february08/datafeature/ - broken link)

Beef Might be What's for Dinner but Where Does it Come From? | KEPR CBS 19 - News, Weather and Sports - Pasco, WA | - Pasco, Washington | News

Why does the United States buy food/grain from other nations, yet pay farmers to not grow their crops here? | Small Pets. Guinea pigs, Bearded Dragons, Chinchilla, rabbit, mouse, rat

Last edited by Hobgob; 06-16-2011 at 07:25 PM..
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Old 06-16-2011, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, Florida at last
98 posts, read 144,812 times
Reputation: 55
Here is a link worth checking out when we get too self righteous and indignant and all proud of ourselves in Alabama about this "wonderful" law. There is a problem. We acknowledge that. This law is not a good, fair, or effective solution.

Bishop Calls Alabama Immigration Law Nation's 'Meanest'

Only, of course, if we are interested in considering all sides.
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