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Old 06-23-2011, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Jacksonville, Florida at last
98 posts, read 144,641 times
Reputation: 55

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No. I have lived in Oregon in the Willamette Valley, in the midst of a large Latino community. I have lived in Mexico where conditions are more difficult than I have seen anywhere in the United States (and was treated with kindness and a willingness to help which would embarrass any American) - but I was legal, admittedly. And I live in Alabama now. I imagine that Southern California has a huge Latino population. I would imagine a large percentage are legal because they owned and lived in California long before it became a territory of the United States.
I think it is possible that when jobs are an issue in a society that has exported a huge portion of its manufacturing jobs (family wage jobs) in order to pay workers less and have more profit, it is easy to start looking around for someone to blame. Here it is pretty well known that the chicken packing plants, which are a huge base of the economy in our county, pay little, expect high production work non stop, and the jobs are in a miserable atmosphere. I don't know, and the packing companies don't know who will fill them now.
My point is that the tone on these boards is vitriolic. There are legitimate problems here, and there are difficult solutions. Once the rhetoric degenerates, and here in Alabama the specter of racism is closer to the surface than I thought, the reasonable discussion of an issue becomes secondary to the tone. The tone here on these boards sounds raw and hateful, and HB56 was a law conceived in anger and in the words of one of its main authors and sponsors "empties the clip" on illegal immigrants. There are provisions in the law that help no one and have done irreparable harm to Alabama's reputation.
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:46 AM
 
1,003 posts, read 2,251,936 times
Reputation: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavoufl View Post
No. I have lived in Oregon in the Willamette Valley, in the midst of a large Latino community. I have lived in Mexico where conditions are more difficult than I have seen anywhere in the United States (and was treated with kindness and a willingness to help which would embarrass any American) - but I was legal, admittedly. And I live in Alabama now. I imagine that Southern California has a huge Latino population. I would imagine a large percentage are legal because they owned and lived in California long before it became a territory of the United States.
I think it is possible that when jobs are an issue in a society that has exported a huge portion of its manufacturing jobs (family wage jobs) in order to pay workers less and have more profit, it is easy to start looking around for someone to blame. Here it is pretty well known that the chicken packing plants, which are a huge base of the economy in our county, pay little, expect high production work non stop, and the jobs are in a miserable atmosphere. I don't know, and the packing companies don't know who will fill them now.
My point is that the tone on these boards is vitriolic. There are legitimate problems here, and there are difficult solutions. Once the rhetoric degenerates, and here in Alabama the specter of racism is closer to the surface than I thought, the reasonable discussion of an issue becomes secondary to the tone. The tone here on these boards sounds raw and hateful, and HB56 was a law conceived in anger and in the words of one of its main authors and sponsors "empties the clip" on illegal immigrants. There are provisions in the law that help no one and have done irreparable harm to Alabama's reputation.
It is amazing how those of foreign born, specifically those of Hispanic origin (meaning "Spanish" speaking) believe the U.S. somehow owes them? On the one hand, they castigate the working conditions of their native country, and applaud the more humane working conditions in the U.S. and also believe our already lax immigration laws should be even more relaxed, because they have a "right"? to be here.

California was NEVER "owned" by those people. Mexico was an occupied colony of Spain, thus "Spanish speaking". These Hispanics are not Latino, because Latino refers to the root Latin which is the origin of all the Romance languages i.e. Italian, Spanish, French and Portuguese; meaning those from southern Europe, which these people are not from. Also, the fact that corporate greed has created an environment of slave labor enticing Mexican and Central American workers, is no reason to justify, and celebrate keeping slave labor ongoing. If those who pick fruits and vegetables are paid a fair wage, the CEO's will be forced to make less profit. The CEO's make a lot of money either way, and if prices are raised, then the competition from South American imports will hurt their profits, which they would deserve.

Mexico is an example of how Imperialism, or colonization is a wonderful thing, because if the provinces of Mexico were owned by the U.S., thus part of the U.S. their entire country would be similar to ours.
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Jacksonville, Florida at last
98 posts, read 144,641 times
Reputation: 55
You are right. I should have stated that there was a large Spanish speaking and heritage population in place in California long before we made it part of the United States' territory. The reference to whether or not they are Hispanic or Latino because of the root word is ridiculous nit pickery (new word). The etymology of the word bigot does not make a bigot a Visigoth either. No, I did not call you a bigot, just illustrating the point.
In re-reading my post, I find I never claimed that Hispanics, undocumented immigrants, or Latinos believe that the U.S. somehow owes them. I have always found that they work very hard for their earnings, and have a profound sense of responsibility for their own families. Here their wages are so low, and devoid of benefits that they do seek medical care where they can, as would you if you cared about your family and as in fact a large number of low income or no income Alabamans of all colors do as well.
I expect that we will see an increase in those products which have been picked or processed by undocumented or illegal immigrants, and in those services which have been provided largely by the same people for years. The price of fuel may also begin to affect the cost of imports like it will that of domestically produced food. Somehow I don't expect the Corporate Interests or the income of CEO's to suffer a whole lot.
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:49 AM
 
199 posts, read 128,601 times
Reputation: 86
Everyone hates the CEO. Class envy at it's best. I mean can you do his job? If so, prove it and do it for significantly less instead of whining.
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, Florida at last
98 posts, read 144,641 times
Reputation: 55
Ouch. All I said was somehow I don't expect the Corporate interests or the income of CEO's to suffer a whole lot. I have no class envy, and I was the CEO of my own very successful small company for 34 years and did quite well. I'm not whining, I'm observing, and I bet I am right.
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:40 PM
 
13 posts, read 12,297 times
Reputation: 12
Hi Everyone, I am new to the boards...

I just want to bring up a point i have not heard anyone mention.

As a military dependent, of multi racial military parents, I often experienced racism and profiling myself the further south we moved. My brother has it worse than me because he is much darker than me.

Its my understanding that there is hardly any diversity and immigration to Alabama in the first place, right?

I do know where there IS a lot diversity... the military.

I'm worried about the families of the military stationed in Alabama. The families of the Puerto Rican
and Mexican, and other recruits.. who have varying degreees of english proficiency for hundreds of different reasons. I can only imagine the crap they are going to go through because of this profile law.

Has anyone in Alabama given thought to who this law will actually affect?
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Old 06-25-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, Florida at last
98 posts, read 144,641 times
Reputation: 55
There IS a lot of diversity in Alabama, but except for those institutions which are required by law to integrate, you do not see a lot of interaction between races. There is a sizable population of Hispanics here, who work in agriculture and processing, as well as service industries. They are the target of this legislation if they are illegal immigrants, but the entire population of Hispanics will be affected by the profiling which is likely to happen.
The legislature in Alabama does not appear to have given much thought to the law itself, let alone who it will affect.
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Old 06-25-2011, 03:09 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,384,142 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentythreeizzle View Post
Hi Everyone, I am new to the boards...

I just want to bring up a point i have not heard anyone mention.

As a military dependent, of multi racial military parents, I often experienced racism and profiling myself the further south we moved. My brother has it worse than me because he is much darker than me.

Its my understanding that there is hardly any diversity and immigration to Alabama in the first place, right?

I do know where there IS a lot diversity... the military.

I'm worried about the families of the military stationed in Alabama. The families of the Puerto Rican
and Mexican, and other recruits.. who have varying degreees of english proficiency for hundreds of different reasons. I can only imagine the crap they are going to go through because of this profile law.

Has anyone in Alabama given thought to who this law will actually affect?

I call foul on this post. I know for a FACT that you have to be proficient in English to be in the military. Nice try though.
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Old 06-25-2011, 03:17 PM
 
Location: New York, NY – on the west bank of the East River
1,978 posts, read 3,108,898 times
Reputation: 1179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavoufl
The legislature in Alabama does not appear to have given much thought to the law itself, let alone who it will affect.
Well, to be perfectly fair, the legislature of Alabama does not give much thought to much of anything if it doesn't have "Approved By Jesus" stamped on it. When the Free The Hops bill was being pushed through, I recall a state senator/rep saying that the reason he was filibustering was because "alcohol inhibits communion with god". And of course, at the time, alcohol was already completely legal, including liquor. All they were doing was raising the ABV limit for beer. This year they actually succeeded in passing the Brewery Modernization Act, which removes a lot of hurdles for opening breweries and brewpubs in Alabama. At least we're moving forward in that area, but we still have a TON of work to do. I currently live about 25 minutes from Asheville, NC, which is a mountain town/city with about 70,000 people. We have NINE breweries, and we're in the South. Asheville is a liberal town in a sea of red, yes, but still, Birmingham, a major metro area of over a million people, has ONE brewery. And only just now are they going to be allowed to have a taproom. I don't mean to be off on a tangent, but it's things like this that show how ridiculous the AL legislature is. If "alcohol inhibits communion with god" is a legitimate reason to vote against a bill, well then I guess you don't need to explain yourself on anything, huh? How ridiculous.

I can only hope that my dear old home place can get its legislative act together one of these days. We've got to get the "Jesus" crap out of the lawmaking process. I mean, come on, we've got a state senator named freaking Shadrack. Like the Bible story! That's mind-blowing to me.

I need to read more about this bill though. I am generally in favor of fairly tough immigration policy, because anyone with a set of eyes in their head can see the major problems being caused by illegal immigration. Still, if the bill was worded poorly, or is overly tough on immigrants to the point of being intrusive, it shouldn't be celebrated. The difficulty generally lies in figuring out exactly where the line is between "unjust and intrusive" and "tough". Tough is necessary, intrusive is not. I should read the actual bill, I suppose.
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Old 06-25-2011, 03:34 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,384,142 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavoufl View Post
You are right. I should have stated that there was a large Spanish speaking and heritage population in place in California long before we made it part of the United States' territory. The reference to whether or not they are Hispanic or Latino because of the root word is ridiculous nit pickery (new word). The etymology of the word bigot does not make a bigot a Visigoth either. No, I did not call you a bigot, just illustrating the point.
In re-reading my post, I find I never claimed that Hispanics, undocumented immigrants, or Latinos believe that the U.S. somehow owes them. I have always found that they work very hard for their earnings, and have a profound sense of responsibility for their own families. Here their wages are so low, and devoid of benefits that they do seek medical care where they can, as would you if you cared about your family and as in fact a large number of low income or no income Alabamans of all colors do as well.
I expect that we will see an increase in those products which have been picked or processed by undocumented or illegal immigrants, and in those services which have been provided largely by the same people for years. The price of fuel may also begin to affect the cost of imports like it will that of domestically produced food. Somehow I don't expect the Corporate Interests or the income of CEO's to suffer a whole lot.

I try not to paint with such a broad brush. It would be pretty hard to say that ALL of any group of immigrants that came here were all good hardworking people, don't you think? Why,then, do you think they can't find work in their own country?

Having been in business I'm suprised you aren't familiar with work Visas. If these jobs have been done by the same people for years they should have gotten work visas and been legal. I also don't know if you realize that MEXICO has socialized medicine. They also have 4% unemployment. One would think that the low wages and lack of medical care here would be a reason to stay in your own country rather than break the law.

Prices are going up as we speak. It obviously isn't due to the lack of illegal immigrant labor as none of these bills have been allowed to move forward. Oil is a big factor. It's too bad this administration has blocked drilling here and cost us even more jobs. One has to wonder if this administration has any clue at all about the citizens of this country needing jobs. They seems as if they could care less about the law or our citizens.

There are countries in this world that are far poorer than Mexico. I also have to wonder why we would bomb Libya to help their unhappy citizens yet we turn a blind eye to the travesty happening in Mexico with the cartels. This violence is spilling over the border and we are told our borders are more secure than ever. Aren't you tired of being lied to?
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