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Old 06-11-2011, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, Florida at last
98 posts, read 145,217 times
Reputation: 55

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Well hi there. I can take criticism as well as anyone, but tone is everything, don't you think? Maybe not.

Whatever pabulum might be, I truly do believe that progress is made when people open their minds to working together for solutions to problems, rather than snipe at one another.
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:38 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,400,228 times
Reputation: 45841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavoufl View Post
Well hi there. I can take criticism as well as anyone, but tone is everything, don't you think? Maybe not.

Whatever pabulum might be, I truly do believe that progress is made when people open their minds to working together for solutions to problems, rather than snipe at one another.
Sorry. I take umbrage when people fling about the word "prejudices" in the airy fashion you did. Which means you're the one who started the sniping.

The problem of illegal immigrants is a real and pressing one, one that is having a real effect on people's livelihoods and the financial health of the state. That means there is no room in the debate for hollow bromides and renditions of Kumbaya. If you have real and substantive arguments on this subject, then please contribute. But to simply flit into the forum with the assumption that we're prejudiced and closed minded is not exactly a good way to endear yourself to us.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, Florida at last
98 posts, read 145,217 times
Reputation: 55
I said OUR prejudices for a reason, we all, including myself, have them, and until I listen with courtesy and respect beyond my own opinion and consider all sides I am learning nothing and contributing less.
I did not "flit into the forum" with any assumptions about you, or the "we" to which you think I am trying to endear myself.
I have an opinion about how we work toward real solutions. I assumed it was permissible to post it here.
I guess I missed the part about how to pre-qualify my comment so it could not be mistaken for a hollow bromide or rendition of Kumbaya. They really need to make these rules clear.
I have no interest in commandeering this forum for a little snipe fest.
You have a nice night now.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Florida !
222 posts, read 418,293 times
Reputation: 229
Sounds to like the States are doing the job the Federal Government won't do.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
5,012 posts, read 8,084,323 times
Reputation: 4963
The problem arises because the way this law is worded ("if police SUSPECT the person is here illegally...") it will cause racial profiling issues which is totally unacceptable. How exactly could you tell if a person is here illegally or not? There are all sorts of legal immigrants in this country, with various accents, colors and looks.

If you want to implement an immigration check then it should be checked for everyone equally, whites included. Anything less is racist. A police officer should not have the ability to selectively screen only certain individuals for immigration status based on how they appear. Unfortunately this law is purposefully worded in such a way as to give officers that ability so that whites will conveniently escape it and brown people will be disproportionately targeted.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
5,012 posts, read 8,084,323 times
Reputation: 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrymac View Post
*California spent 6 billion dollars last yr on illegals...do the math across the country..Insane!
So whose fault is that? If California spent 6 billion on illegals it just means that the state willingly gave out those benefits to them unless you are implying that the illegals defrauded the state by using forged documents? The question is, why did the state even give out 6 billion to these people?
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:58 PM
 
4,743 posts, read 8,487,117 times
Reputation: 4049
Illegal immigrants will not be asked for their 'papers' -UNLESS- they come into contact with the police (traffic stop, accident, etc). Just like everybody else who gets stopped for a traffic offense, illegal immigrants will be asked for their drivers' license - if they don't have a license then they will be asked for more documentation and then possibly taken into custody (just like everybody else).

This is not "profiling". The police will not be pulling people over because they 'might' be illegal immigrants.
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
5,012 posts, read 8,084,323 times
Reputation: 4963
@Reactionary, not sure about Alabama but at least here in California a DL does not prove citizenship status, people without legal status have DLs here in California (those issued prior to 2008 I think). Proving citizenship will require someone to carry their passport or naturalization certificate or birth certificate always with them which is absolutely ludicrous!
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Fort Myers Fl
2,305 posts, read 2,638,843 times
Reputation: 916
The first thing we need to remember about this whole subject is in one word, "Illegal". Once you understand the definition of that one word and forget about race, fairness, and all excuses people come up with to defend people who have broken laws that this country has on its books we will get nowhere. We cannot pick and choose what laws we enforce we must enforce all laws equally.

We also have work visas so dont worry the fruits and vegtables will get picked. And by the way so you don't think I am a racist, I am white my wife is Puerto Rican and I sponser my nieces husband who is a legal Mexican Immigrant.
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:25 PM
 
2,053 posts, read 5,897,758 times
Reputation: 1379
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Actually, yes. They made their money. Nothing wrong with saying, "We won't be requiring your services any more. Thanks." Equating this problem with a gigantic game of Kick The Can just doesn't work. Just because they haven't been caught doesn't give them legitimacy.

Now, more to your point, I think one solution needs to be a guest worker program, one that ensures that taxes are paid, that the worker in question cannot become a dependent on the social welfare net, and that employers do indeed have access to labor when the country reaches full employment. At the same time, guest worker passes should be recognized as temporary only.

I actually completely agree with you. I've said for years that we were obviously in need of their labor (lately though, not so much). There needs to be an easier way for workers to come into this country on a legitimate basis for a "temporary work" situation for low skilled laborers. That is basically what Bush was pushing for, and he caught a lot of flak from some Republicans. That way, we at least have a record of who is coming into this country. Also, it could provide protection for the workers, because we all know that some people take advantage of these people and make a lot of money off their labor.
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