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Old 06-18-2011, 09:40 AM
 
358 posts, read 332,648 times
Reputation: 107

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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
1) Nope. Basically the US and its agents have sovereign immunity. They cannot be sued without their permission. The law allows such a suit only if the action is outside of rational behaviour. You don't have to get past just a jury. YOu have to get past a judge. First things the US will do is move for a Summary Judgement. The Judge will have to hold that there are sufficient facts to present the case to the jury. And the Judge will have to agree in the end that the juries findings are reasonable.

Which begs the question, why has Mexico not formally ask for extradition? why is the lawsuit not brought to Mexican courts?. As for the difficulty of this suit going before a jury, if there is any questionable circumstance surrounding the shooting it will be put before a jury, and considering the the murky evidence surrounding the incident I would speculate to say that it would be allowed to go forward, if anything to relieve political tensions.
To keep my response regarding the civil suit in context, I was responding to the statement
"The suit has been filed. And the discovery process will allow the family access into what the government knows. and the jury will determine if it was appropriate or at least not horribly wrong. That is really the standard in such a case. The LEO and the government are protected unless what happened was horribly wrong." I was pointing out that actions do not have to be "Horribly wrong" to win a civil suit, and that a civil judgment is much easier to obtain than a criminal conviction. Case in point: OJ Simpson was acquitted of murder charges in a criminal court, but was found liable for wrongful death in civil proceedings.

2) No where have I suggested that the Agent should be tried in Mexico. Read what I write not what you think I do.

I'm sorry, but I do read exactly what you write:

"Good point. The shooting occurred in Mexico. Normal protocol would be to allow Mexico to extradite the BP to stand trial. So are you for law and order or not?"

"Your post is more of your standard garbage. The kid was well into Mexico and coming toward the US if anything.

"Give it up. If the BP is clear he should simply go to Mexico and prove his self defense.
We both know that there is no way he will do that.
But let us understand we, the US in this case, have no intention of allowing the appropriate justice system to work when our agent is involved."


"If the BP agents cause was just he simply goes to Mexico and proves it.
What could be simpler?
So the problem is a corrupt Mexican judiciary?
So the US should never send anyone to Mexico? We don't extradite and they don't get Americans? Sounds like a deal. But we can't ***** if the Mexicans won't send the bad guys back here can we?"

"The killing occurred in Mexico. So if you don't wish to have the location of the killing rule you then cannot expect Mexico to extradite to the US.
That how you want it ?"


Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure sounds like you are for "Law and order" and believe he should go to Mexico to answer for the shooting.

3) The Mexicans have a basis for trying the guy and a basis for asking his extradition. It would be unthinkable for the US to actually turn the guy over. If he is ever punished for what happened it would have to be in the states.

The decision to try to extradite him would be a political one on the part of the Mexican government. They know it is not going to happen. So they make their decision based on the political realities as they see it.

Moot point. Once again, Mexico has not asked for extradition, and no lawsuit has been filed in Mexico. We can speculate all day long on what you feel should happen, or would happen, but it has no bearing on the facts or outcome of this situation. IF Mexico was denied extradition, then we could discuss the legalities and moral issues of the BP agent not being sent to Mexico to answer for the shooting.


Don't kid yourself. The guy would almost certainly be convicted in Mexico or any neutral body for what he did. It is only his role as a US Border Patrol Agent that protects him. Shooting children is frowned on in most civilzed places.

I love how you group Mexico with neutral. I have already demonstrated the Mexican people and governments feelings in regards to our borders, and lower southwest states for that matter. There is NOTHING remotely neutral about this corrupt country, or their beliefs that the BP agent should not be there protecting a border that should not exist. Now can you please explain to me why he would be convicted by a neutral body? I am really curious how you draw this conclusion.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
He and his fellow gang members were throwing rocks at the lone agent, surrounding him like a pack of wolves.
And this in your El Paso Times today:

Quote:
Three videotapes [from cameras DHS has on the border, but that were not released for "national security" reasons] of the incident later proved that no one had surrounded the agent, and also disproved suggestions that (Hernandez) had thrown a rock at the agent.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:40 AM
 
31,475 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
And this in your El Paso Times today:
So says his lawyers. Let the videotape be played in a court of law for all to see.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
So says his lawyers. Let the videotape be played in a court of law for all to see.
There are a total of three DHS recordings of the specific incident that have not been released (even with FOIA requests), citing "national security reasons". His lawyers were able to view what the cameras recorded, and made their statements after seeing the videos. DHS is preventing the recordings from being viewed publicly.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:45 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17687
So, now it's a conspiracy. I see.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:02 PM
 
31,475 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
There are a total of three DHS recordings of the specific incident that have not been released (even with FOIA requests), citing "national security reasons". His lawyers were able to view what the cameras recorded, and made their statements after seeing the videos. DHS is preventing the recordings from being viewed publicly.
Still you take the statements of lawyers as being the truth without having viewed the tapes yourself.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Still you take the statements of lawyers as being the truth without having viewed the tapes yourself.
I had watched the cell phone video of the incident and didn't see any rocks being thrown...

On another note, the FBI escorted the wife of Guillermo Arevalo Pedraza (shot from the Border Patrol airboats near Laredo) to depose her and other witnesses in the United States...
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