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Old 06-15-2011, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
What if the child was conceived and lived in utero in the United States the entire time? How about if the father is unknown (and perhaps a U.S. citzen)? If the child is immediately put up for adoption in the United States, is it able to gain citizenship?

If the baby is attempted to be aborted late-term, doesn't the State give it particular rights, and attempt to have juridiction over the mother?...

Do we show our birth certificate or have to demonstrate that our biological mother was in the country at a particular time of us being a fetus or conceived? The trouble with inventing court decisions is that it doesn't survive any scrutiny. I am a U.S. citizen by virtue of my birth within the United States, no matter whom my parents were or their citizenship status at the time.
Whether a child is conceived here or in Timbuktu, if the child is conceived by an illegal alien, the child remains the offspring of an illegal alien, and should not be a U.S. citizen.

I suppose you also believe every child conceived in a foreign land by foreign nationals should have the right to be flown here in utero and be conferred U.S. citizenship? Sorry, but U.S. citizenship should be reserved for the children of U.S. citizens, period.

 
Old 06-15-2011, 07:41 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
No...I dont need to educate myself on these organizations. I'd rather spend my time fishing on the banks of the Guadelupe River than spend 1 second worring about the impact these organization have on anything.

My comment, as uneducated as is was...was a reality. Unless your organizations can write, pass, and ratify a constitutional amendment changing the 14th amendment...then they have no power. none. period.
Once again, congressmen have already written legislation to end birthright citizenship in its present form. You do know the differnence between a congressmen and an outside organization, don't you?
 
Old 06-15-2011, 07:52 AM
 
Location: SouthCentral Texas
3,855 posts, read 4,085,289 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Hmm. . . According to the U.S. Constitution, being a citizen IS being under the jurisdiction thereof. So, how can one be under the jurisdiction thereof, if one is NOT a citizen? Furthermore, it would not have been necessary to include a “citizenship clause” in the 14th Amendment if one did not require the other.

You are grasping at straws. Howard’s clarification remains in the Congressional Record. It is what it is. After all, he is the author.
Both citizens and non-citizens are under the jurisdiction of the US. Is that more clearer.

Your exmaples were rights held only by citizens. I guess you thought that since citizens only held these rights, that they were the only ones under the jurisdiction of the US. Which I clearly dis-proved.

I beleive you need to look up the terms-
American National
Asylee
H-1B beneficiary
Intracompany Transferee
Legalized Aliens
Parolee[not same as criminal parolee]
Permenat Resident Alien
...All non-citizens, in the US legally, and under the jurisdiction of the US.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
No...I dont need to educate myself on these organizations. I'd rather spend my time fishing on the banks of the Guadelupe River than spend 1 second worring about the impact these organization have on anything.

My comment, as uneducated as is was...was a reality. Unless your organizations can write, pass, and ratify a constitutional amendment changing the 14th amendment...then they have no power. none. period.
You have the right to think what you want.

Besides! Obama give himself the right to critisize and oppose Laws, provisions
or most anything that HE doesn't like and has never read.
So why not you too?.

Last edited by mkfarnam; 06-15-2011 at 09:55 AM..
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:25 PM
 
1,410 posts, read 1,737,250 times
Reputation: 1156
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
This is an important bill to support as birth-right citizenship is a major incentive for illegals---and a huge financial burden for us taxpayers. Write your senators and congressmen with your support for this bill. The list is growing with congressional supporters--Ron Paul is a supporter.

Sen. John Boozman Co-Sponsors Birthright Citizenship Bill | NumbersUSA - For Lower Immigration Levels
Yep, don't go after the little guy in all this - start at the top! Here, with this amendment, then denial of benefits, then go after the employers in a big way. Once that is done, the problem will work itself out. No need to waste tons of resources on deportations.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...I suppose you also believe every child conceived in a foreign land by foreign nationals should have the right to be flown here in utero and be conferred U.S. citizenship?...
Keep right on adding hyperbole to the discussion, that is sure to win the argument...
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:42 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by temazepam View Post
Yep, don't go after the little guy in all this - start at the top! Here, with this amendment, then denial of benefits, then go after the employers in a big way. Once that is done, the problem will work itself out. No need to waste tons of resources on deportations.
"The little guy"? My, how cute. We need to go after both guilty parties, not stop deportations. If we stop that, more illegals will feel free to invade our country.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 04:04 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,596 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It is pretty obvious that the parent's of these anchors are not fully subject to our jurisdiction, therefore neither are their unborn children or newly born ones. End of story. I am not going to argue this same issue for the umpteenth time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Apples and light bulbs. Citizens may “lose” certain rights, or their medical condition may disqualify them. However, illegal aliens NEVER had those rights to begin with. Again, Senator Howard’s words are clear, and HE was the author of the clause. If it included everyone, there would have been no need for clarification.
Yeah, if this is the case then they can't be arrested for all those violent and evil things you think they are doing here. I mean, why exactly do they take terror suspects to Guantanamo? Because they won't be subject to our jurisdiction and won't get rights we grant EVERYONE on our soil.

It's hilarious to hear the "rule of law" people and the "follow the constitution as it was meant" guys get all uppity when it the constitution doesn't fit their agenda, or they don't understand the meaning of something, or they blame it on them darned liberal activist judges.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Keep right on adding hyperbole to the discussion, that is sure to win the argument...
If you support granting citizenship to the children of anyone who manages to give birth on our soil, including foreign nationals who do not live here, but only travel to the U.S. to give birth, then, how is my comment hyperbole?
 
Old 06-15-2011, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Yeah, if this is the case then they can't be arrested for all those violent and evil things you think they are doing here. I mean, why exactly do they take terror suspects to Guantanamo? Because they won't be subject to our jurisdiction and won't get rights we grant EVERYONE on our soil.

It's hilarious to hear the "rule of law" people and the "follow the constitution as it was meant" guys get all uppity when it the constitution doesn't fit their agenda, or they don't understand the meaning of something, or they blame it on them darned liberal activist judges.
Being prosecuted for a crime does not qualify one as being a citizen, or being fully subject to the jurisdiction thereof as intended by the framers of the 14th. It simply means they have been charged for violating a law in this country, or causing harm to this country. U.S. citizens are also arrested, tried, and convicted of crimes in foreign lands. So what?
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