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Old 06-17-2011, 12:40 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,593 times
Reputation: 89

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
You have yet to prove by simply being born on US Soil you are granted Birthright Citizenship.
The 14th Amendment does ffs I don't need to prove a thing unless you don't think the 14th Amendment section 1 is valid. The only question is if illegal aliens are under jurisdiction or not and that's not even in question considering Brennan's statement. If an illegal alien is under our jurisdiction he is a citizen. If he isn't under our jurisdiction please to be explaining. I only asked you to explain this like 5 pages ago. You seem to be back pedaling now so you admit they are under jurisdiction? Well then, tada they are citizens.

 
Old 06-17-2011, 12:48 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,868 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
The 14th Amendment does ffs.
How about re-writing your gibberish in plain English? What is ff's?

Quote:
The only question is if illegal aliens are under jurisdiction or not and that's not even in question considering Brennan's statement. If an illegal alien is under our jurisdiction he is a citizen. If he isn't under our jurisdiction please to be explaining. I only asked you to explain this like 5 pages ago. You seem to be back pedaling now so you admit they are under jurisdiction?
If an illegal alien was under our jurisdiction he could be drafted into the military, he could work as a Federal or State Employee, he could vote, obtain a firearm, etc. But since illegal aliens are "within our jurisdiction" he is limited to being unable to work for an employer, in many States unable to apply for a business license, unable to own a firearm, unable to vote, etc. He only falls under the Equal Protection of Laws.

This has all been explained all ready. It's now in its simplest form for you to follow.
 
Old 06-17-2011, 12:50 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,593 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
If an illegal alien was under our jurisdiction he could be drafted into the military, he could work as a Federal or State Employee, he could vote, obtain a firearm, etc. But since illegal aliens are "within our jurisdiction" he is limited to being unable to work for an employer, in many States unable to apply for a business license, unable to own a firearm, unable to vote, etc. He only falls under the Equal Protection of Laws.

This has all been explained all ready. It's now in its simplest form for you to follow.
Yes well you are wrong and I already quoted Justice Gray's statements concerning your self serving interpretation. Keep trying.\

I'll quote them again for emphasis:

Quote:
impossible to construe the words "subject to the jurisdiction thereof," in the opening sentence [of the Fourteenth Amendment], as less comprehensive than the words "within its jurisdiction," in the concluding sentence of the same section; or to hold that persons "within the jurisdiction" of one of the States of the Union are not "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States."
Quote:
[e]very citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States.
Funny he says they are subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States. Hmmm, who should I believe.....a Supreme Court Judge or someone reading it to fit their own agenda? Tough one.
 
Old 06-17-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,236,627 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Uhhh I have proven almost everything you've said as hogwash.
You haven't shown one statistic or any link to show your information source.
So you haven't proven sh*t!
 
Old 06-17-2011, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,020,887 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
What does one need to be recognized as a Citizen of the USA? According to the Federal government one needs an SS Card or a US Passport or a recognized birth certificate...
Actually a Legal Permanent Resident can have a Social Security card (and military ID), so it does not prove U.S. citizenship. Some states have a "Voter's ID" card, both with or without a photo, which could be proof of U.S. citizenship (only citizens can legally vote). A recognized birth certificate could be from a U.S state, territory, or overseas military installation, although there are a couple small U.S. territories that provide U.S. nationality, not citizenship, to the residents that are born and live there.

In actuality, a U.S. passport proves someone is a U.S. National, not a U.S. citizen...

A naturalized U.S. citizen can also have a Certificate of Citizenship that is recognized as valid...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
...To be under the Jurisdiction of the USA one needs to have a US Passport, SS Card,, recognized birth certificate, or a valid immigrant visa or Green Card...
In some cases of midwife births even some decades ago, there may not be a birth certificate, conceivably there could be cases of someone without any documentation that they are under the jurisdiction of the United States. Is is not the documents that put you in the status of being "under the jurisdiction" (how were people in the U.S. regarded before those documents existed?), it is that they provide proof of that status. I am acknowledging what you have posted, but there are still fine points that are arguable for the purpose of jurisdiction (like "Temporary Protected Status", where the work-authorization I-766 card proves someone is also legally present, there are also 'K' "non-immigrant" visas that are legally present, and likely will adjust to CPR/LPR status).

I'd also like to go with the language of "Resident Card", instead of the now-misnomered "Green Card"...

One can also have USCIS notification documents to prove legal presence...
 
Old 06-17-2011, 03:05 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,593 times
Reputation: 89
so you want studies or sources to back up the Constitution of the United States and the Supreme Court cases I linked? bwahahahaha. You must be following benicars approach of asking for more unnecessary information while sticking your head in the ground and claiming victory. good job. perhaps as further evidence I can point you to the anchor baby citizens you guys are crying about.

Last edited by huddledmasses; 06-17-2011 at 03:24 PM..
 
Old 06-17-2011, 03:17 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,868 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Actually a Legal Permanent Resident can have a Social Security card (and military ID), so it does not prove U.S. citizenship. Some states have a "Voter's ID" card, both with or without a photo, which could be proof of U.S. citizenship (only citizens can legally vote). A recognized birth certificate could be from a U.S state, territory, or overseas military installation, although there are a couple small U.S. territories that provide U.S. nationality, not citizenship, to the residents that are born and live there.

In actuality, a U.S. passport proves someone is a U.S. National, not a U.S. citizen...

A naturalized U.S. citizen can also have a Certificate of Citizenship that is recognized as valid...



In some cases of midwife births even some decades ago, there may not be a birth certificate, conceivably there could be cases of someone without any documentation that they are under the jurisdiction of the United States. Is is not the documents that put you in the status of being "under the jurisdiction" (how were people in the U.S. regarded before those documents existed?), it is that they provide proof of that status. I am acknowledging what you have posted, but there are still fine points that are arguable for the purpose of jurisdiction (like "Temporary Protected Status", where the work-authorization I-766 card proves someone is also legally present, there are also 'K' "non-immigrant" visas that are legally present, and likely will adjust to CPR/LPR status).

I'd also like to go with the language of "Resident Card", instead of the now-misnomered "Green Card"...

One can also have USCIS notification documents to prove legal presence...
I APPLAUD you IBMMuseum for the finer details.
 
Old 06-17-2011, 03:22 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,868 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
so you want studies or sources to back up the Constitution of the United States and the Supreme Court cases I linked? bwahahahaha. You must be following benicars approach of asking for more unnecessary information while sticking your head in the ground and claiming victory. good job.
You simply can choose to believe your ignorance, but I would heed what others, to include myself, have told you, as your world comes crashing down around you. Based on your comments, I am willing to bet you are either an "anchor baby" yourself, brought here as a child through EWI and are now candidate for DREAM, or are nothing more than a High School student/graduate, and Progressive/Socialist at that.
 
Old 06-17-2011, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,020,887 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
To "qualify for Citizenship" one must be born within the United States or be born abroad to parents who are US Citizens. "Qualifying" for Citizenship does not constitute Citizenship.
Currently in regards to birth overseas, someone can be born to a single U.S. citizen parent to be a U.S. citizen. This is where it gets interesting, because one can also be born to a single U.S. citizen parent, but not gain that U.S. citizenship status themselves. That is, if the parent is unwed, and not present in the United States for a certain period of time before the birth (1 year for females, 5 years for males), and after their own 14th birthday, that child is determined not to be a U.S. citizen.

There was even a recent Supreme Court case on this, where someone born to a U.S. citizen father didn't gain that citizenship status himself. He sued under "equal protection", saying that he was discriminated against on a sexual basis, because his father could have conferred U.S. citizenship under the rules for a female parent. Ultimately the case was dismissed, with no court comment other than saying Congress would have to act for or against resolving disparity between the genders on that particular issue.
 
Old 06-17-2011, 03:38 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,868 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Currently in regards to birth overseas, someone can be born to a single U.S. citizen parent to be a U.S. citizen. This is where it gets interesting, because one can also be born to a single U.S. citizen parent, but not gain that U.S. citizenship status themselves. That is, if the parent is unwed, and not present in the United States for a certain period of time before the birth (1 year for females, 5 years for males), and after their own 14th birthday, that child is determined not to be a U.S. citizen.

There was even a recent Supreme Court case on this, where someone born to a U.S. citizen father didn't gain that citizenship status himself. He sued under "equal protection", saying that he was discriminated against on a sexual basis, because his father could have conferred U.S. citizenship under the rules for a female parent. Ultimately the case was dismissed, with no court comment other than saying Congress would have to act for or against resolving disparity between the genders on that particular issue.
I was fixin' to bring that case up, glad you mentioned it. It was a 4 - 4 ruling so no Citizenship for him and the case set no Precedent.
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