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Old 06-18-2011, 03:05 PM
 
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Nothing about abroad yet, that's not the focus of my question (in fact I specifically said "birth in the United States), and can be determined through other standards. There was no answer if U.S. citizenship can come from a single U.S. citizen parent. That impacts portions of your second category.
Father citizen, Mother alien, yes
Mother citizen, Father alien, yes

 
Old 06-18-2011, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Father citizen, Mother alien, yes
Mother citizen, Father alien, yes
So stated more clearly (I hope you are allowing for both parents as U.S. citizens to have the baby gain U.S. citizenship), with at least one U.S. citizen parent, the child is a U.S. citizen if born in the Unites States. Do I take your "alien" definition to be any foreign alien, both a legal immigrant or without immigration status? From here we move on to #2 (still fully within a baby born in the United States).

2a) A baby born to two legal residents is what classification?

2b) A baby born to a legal resident and someone with a non-immigrant (including that person being outside the U.S., specifically not violating U.S. immigration law) status is what classification?

2c) A baby born to a legal immigrant and an illegal alien (specifically currently violating immigration law) is what classification?

2d) A baby born to an illegal alien mother (and a father with no immigration status, whether not present in the U.S. or an illegal alien himself), specifically violating immigration law, is what classification?

2e) A baby born to at least one person in current TPS status is what classification?
 
Old 06-18-2011, 06:56 PM
 
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Do I take your "alien" definition to be any foreign alien, both a legal immigrant or without immigration status? From here we move on to #2 (still fully within a baby born in the United States).

2a) A baby born to two legal residents is what classification?

2b) A baby born to a legal resident and someone with a non-immigrant (including that person being outside the U.S., specifically not violating U.S. immigration law) status is what classification?

2c) A baby born to a legal immigrant and an illegal alien (specifically currently violating immigration law) is what classification?

2d) A baby born to an illegal alien mother (and a father with no immigration status, whether not present in the U.S. or an illegal alien himself), specifically violating immigration law, is what classification?

2e) A baby born to at least one person in current TPS status is what classification?
1) Alien is defined already by numerous cases as a person here with the consent of our government (permitted) and domiciled, Wong Kim Ark (The facts of this case, as agreed by the parties, are as follows: Wong Kim Ark was born in 1873 in the city of San Francisco, in the State of California and United States of America, and was and is a laborer. His father and mother were persons of Chinese descent, and subjects of the Emperor of China; they were at the time of his birth domiciled residents of the United States, having previously established and still enjoying a permanent domicil and residence therein at San Francisco) and Yick Wo (Chinese persons, born out of the United States, remaining subjects of the Emperor of China, and not having become citizens of the United States, are entitled to the protection of, and owe allegiance to, the United States so long as they are permitted by the United States to reside here, and are " subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the same sense as all other aliens residing in the United States. Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886)) . It does not include EWI nor does it include those with outstanding orders for deportation (illegal aliens).

2a) Citizen and/or Dual Citizen, parents can decide prior to age of maturity or the child can decide at the age of maturity.

2b) Father LPR, Mother NI, should be nationality of mother. Mother LPR, Father NI, Citizen and/or Dual Citizen.

2c) Father LI, Mother IA, should be the nationality of the mother. Mother LI, Father IA, Citizen and/or Dual Citizen

2d) Mother IA, Father MIA, should be nationality of Mother.

2e) Needs better clarification. Father Citizen, Mother TPS, should be nationality of Mother, allowed to apply for Naturalization. Father TPS, Mother Citizen, Citizen and/or Dual Citizen; Father LPR, Mother TPS, Nationality of Mother allowed to apply for Naturalization or either of parents Nationality. etc.

There is no Precedence in these instances (2b - e), the child should take the nationality of the mother, however "they are perceived to be citizens simply because they were given State issued Long Form Birth Certificates" (a State error).

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 06-18-2011 at 08:01 PM..
 
Old 06-18-2011, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,012,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
1) Alien is defined already by numerous cases as a person here with the consent of our government and domiciled, Wong Kim Ark (The facts of this case, as agreed by the parties, are as follows: Wong Kim Ark was born in 1873 in the city of San Francisco, in the State of California and United States of America, and was and is a laborer. His father and mother were persons of Chinese descent, and subjects of the Emperor of China; they were at the time of his birth domiciled residents of the United States, having previously established and still enjoying a permanent domicil and residence therein at San Francisco) and Yick Wo (Chinese persons, born out of the United States, remaining subjects of the Emperor of China, and not having become citizens of the United States, are entitled to the protection of, and owe allegiance to, the United States so long as they are permitted by the United States to reside here, and are " subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the same sense as all other aliens residing in the United States. Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886)) . It does not include EWI nor does it include those with outstanding orders for deportation (illegal aliens).

2a) Citizen and/or Dual Citizen, parents can decide prior to age of maturity or the child can decide at the age of maturity.

2b) Father LPR, Mother NI, should be nationality of mother. Mother LPR, Father NI, Citizen and/or Dual Citizen.

2c) Father LI, Mother IA, should be the nationality of the mother. Mother LI, Father IA, Citizen and/or Dual Citizen

2d) Mother IA, Father MIA, should be nationality of Mother.

2e) Needs better clarification. Father Citizen, Mother TPS, should be nationality of Mother, allowed to apply for Naturalization. Father TPS, Mother Citizen, Citizen and/or Dual Citizen; Father LPR, Mother TPS, Nationality of Mother allowed to apply for Naturalization or either of parents Nationality. etc.

There is no Precedence in these instances, the child should take the nationality of the mother, however "they are perceived to be citizens simply because they were given State issued Long Form Birth Certificates" (a State error). Your wording suggests you are attempting to get the "classification" of citizen for each response.
You certainly make things complex. "Alien" not covering illegal alien, the gender of the parent making a determination of citizenship, and parents deciding if their child is a citizen of the United States (what happens in a tie or change of custody?).

I still think you are having more classifications, so we may need to start over. Only a declaration of whether the baby in each instance is a citizen or not. There are no preconceptions on my part, I am trying to determine how you interpret each example.

I'll compose up another list, please no court discussions right now, by the numbers we can reference those points later...

EDIT: Also no "dual citizen" identifiers, I want to only be concerned with status pertaining to the United States...

Last edited by IBMMuseum; 06-18-2011 at 09:23 PM.. Reason: Additions...
 
Old 06-18-2011, 09:02 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
1) Alien is defined already by numerous cases as a person here with the consent of our government (permitted) and domiciled, Wong Kim Ark (The facts of this case, as agreed by the parties, are as follows: Wong Kim Ark was born in 1873 in the city of San Francisco, in the State of California and United States of America, and was and is a laborer. His father and mother were persons of Chinese descent, and subjects of the Emperor of China; they were at the time of his birth domiciled residents of the United States, having previously established and still enjoying a permanent domicil and residence therein at San Francisco) and Yick Wo (Chinese persons, born out of the United States, remaining subjects of the Emperor of China, and not having become citizens of the United States, are entitled to the protection of, and owe allegiance to, the United States so long as they are permitted by the United States to reside here, and are " subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the same sense as all other aliens residing in the United States. Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886)) . It does not include EWI nor does it include those with outstanding orders for deportation (illegal aliens).

2a) Citizen and/or Dual Citizen, parents can decide prior to age of maturity or the child can decide at the age of maturity.

2b) Father LPR, Mother NI, should be nationality of mother. Mother LPR, Father NI, Citizen and/or Dual Citizen.

2c) Father LI, Mother IA, should be the nationality of the mother. Mother LI, Father IA, Citizen and/or Dual Citizen

2d) Mother IA, Father MIA, should be nationality of Mother.

2e) Needs better clarification. Father Citizen, Mother TPS, should be nationality of Mother, allowed to apply for Naturalization. Father TPS, Mother Citizen, Citizen and/or Dual Citizen; Father LPR, Mother TPS, Nationality of Mother allowed to apply for Naturalization or either of parents Nationality. etc.

There is no Precedence in these instances (2b - e), the child should take the nationality of the mother, however "they are perceived to be citizens simply because they were given State issued Long Form Birth Certificates" (a State error).
I totally agree with the mother having to be the qualifer.
 
Old 06-18-2011, 09:31 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
You certainly make things complex. "Alien" not covering illegal alien, the gender of the parent making a determination of citizenship, and parents deciding if their child is a citizen of the United States (what happens in a tie or change of custody?).
Isn't that the name of the game? A citizen-father may petition for his child only if the child was legitimated prior to the age of 18 and the child is in the "legal custody" of the citizen-father, or the citizen-father has or had a bona fide parent-child relationship w/ the child.
Quote:
I still think you are having more classifications, so we may need to start over. Only a declaration of whether the baby in each instance is a citizen or not. There are no preconceptions on my part, I am trying to determine how you interpret each example.
I thought that that was what you were attempting to have me do. It's not quite that simple.
Quote:
Also no "dual citizen" identifiers, I want to only be concerned with status pertaining to the United States
Now you are attempting to get me to only use Jus Soli when the USA recognizes both Soli and Sanguinis, as does many other Nations.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 06-18-2011 at 09:56 PM..
 
Old 06-18-2011, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,012,769 times
Reputation: 601
I'm bringing up the case where at least one parent is a U.S. citizen. "Citizen" is a U.S. citizen, "LR" is a Legal Resident, the current status of a CPR/LPR, "NI" is any current "non-immigrant" visa status, "IA" is an illegal alien. TPS will be excluded from the discussion for now:

1a) father citizen, mother citizen

1b) father citizen, mother LR

1c) father LR, mother citizen

1d) father citizen, mother NI

1e) father NI, mother citizen

1f) father citizen, mother IA

1g) father IA, mother citizen
 
Old 06-18-2011, 10:06 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,641 times
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1a) father citizen, mother citizen Citizen

1b) father citizen, mother LR Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

1c) father LR, mother citizen Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

1d) father citizen, mother NI Mothers Nationality (there is no court precedence) Perceived Citizen

1e) father NI, mother citizen Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

1f) father citizen, mother IA Mothers Nationality (there is no court precedence) Perceived Citizen

1g) father IA, mother citizen Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

Note: A citizen-father may petition for his child only if the child was legitimated prior to the age of 18 and the child is in the "legal custody" of the citizen-father, or the citizen-father has or had a bona fide parent-child relationship w/ the child.
 
Old 06-18-2011, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,012,769 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
1a) father citizen, mother citizen Citizen

1b) father citizen, mother LR Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

1c) father LR, mother citizen Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

1d) father citizen, mother NI Mothers Nationality (there is no court precedence) Perceived Citizen

1e) father NI, mother citizen Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

1f) father citizen, mother IA Mothers Nationality (there is no court precedence) Perceived Citizen

1g) father IA, mother citizen Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

Note: A citizen-father may petition for his child only if the child was legitimated prior to the age of 18 and the child is in the "legal custody" of the citizen-father, or the citizen-father has or had a bona fide parent-child relationship w/ the child.
1b) & 1c): Does the child retain the status gained at birth? Be aware an LPR can lose status by being outside the United States for a period over a year without permission. This may be more important when we talk about LPR parents (the "#2" categories) later.

1d): Can even be a case where the mother has a K-3 visa (spouse of a U.S. citizen). Would the child then be under an implied K-4 (a K-3 visa can be renewed, and doesn't require to go to LPR status). If the mother goes to LPR status (and later to citizenship), does the child get derivative status if a minor? What happens if the child attains the age of majority without the mother having nothing further than non-immigrant status?

1f): The child is out of immigration status too, unless the father petitions for it?...
 
Old 06-18-2011, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,012,769 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
1a) father citizen, mother citizen Citizen

1b) father citizen, mother LR Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

1c) father LR, mother citizen Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

1d) father citizen, mother NI Mothers Nationality (there is no court precedence) Perceived Citizen

1e) father NI, mother citizen Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

1f) father citizen, mother IA Mothers Nationality (there is no court precedence) Perceived Citizen

1g) father IA, mother citizen Citizen (Child can also attain dual citizenship)

Note: A citizen-father may petition for his child only if the child was legitimated prior to the age of 18 and the child is in the "legal custody" of the citizen-father, or the citizen-father has or had a bona fide parent-child relationship w/ the child.
1d) & 1f): Say the mother takes the child back to the home country (remember the case of a year or so back?), does the father have any rights if the child is not a U.S. citizen?...
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