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Old 06-12-2011, 07:48 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S. 123 View Post
Ok, then here is a better idea for you. Beware, its much more radical.

Make being in this country illegaly an act of treason punishable by DEATH!!!!!!!! You wont get a trial, that right is reserved for citizens only. You will simply be taken to the prison, strapped to the table, and killed. { I can think of a much cheaper and affective way of doing it, as Im sure you can also, but for the sake of keeping the gore to a minimum, lets stick with lethal injection }

Once this law has passed, give all illegals currently here a 1 year grace period to get their affairs in order and leave. I gaurantee if we start doing this, those people will think twice before crossing that border line.

for those of you who may be wondering, yes, im serious, serious as a heart attack.
Sorry, no I disagree that is too radical of a solution to make illegal entry a capital offense punishable by death. It is comments like these that make our entire anti-illegal immigration movement look bad because the pro's will jump on this as an example to smear our entire movement.

 
Old 06-12-2011, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,821,083 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
They have sufficient numbers to change the outcome of elections as many Repubs are beginning to find. The middle five percent is very powerful if the election is otherwise an even affair.

They have more than sufficient power to block a constitutional amendment...and that is the problem that must be dealt with. And they are not alone. A majoraity of the US electorate still seems to favor the 14th.

YOu have a very, very long way to go. And you have virtually no probability of success.

But maybe it is good. Beat your brains out on this issue keeping you from doing any real harm.
So, in other words, politicians should acquiesce to the demands of illegal alien supporters, or risk defeat? Is that actually beneficial to this country? What if we suddenly have a substantial number of illegal aliens from Iran? Should we then become a Muslim nation dictated by Sharia Law? Do you actually not realize what you are advocating? This country should NEVER allow foreign nationals to dictate policy, particularly, ILLEGAL foreign nationals.

In addition, you are assuming the majority of Hispanics support illegal aliens. That is simply not true. It may be true in your circle of relatives and friends, but it is certainly not the stance shared by the Hispanics I know. The truth of the matter is that Hispanic politicians, Hispanic special interest groups, and Hispanics with illegal relatives and friends want this country to kowtow exclusively to illegal Hispanics. For them, this isn’t an issue of right or wrong, national security, or the betterment of our country. Rather, it is a desire to transform this country into a majority Hispanic nation for political clout, and personal gain. They certainly do not have the best interest of this country at heart.

Be honest. If the majority of illegals were Haitian, you would not give a damn about illegal immigration, would you? In fact, you would be a staunch opponent of any measure to reward their illegal presence, including Birthright Citizenship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Because they are patriotic americans who support that which has worked well for us for 150 years?

Because they suspect the alternative will discriminate against the hispanic?
Patriotic? Didn’t slavery “work well” for centuries? According to your “logic” the advocates of slavery were also patriotic Americans. Fortunately, that long-standing tradition was eventually abolished.

Discrimination involves disparate treatment, or the denial of rights and privileges, in this case, on the basis of race or ethnicity. If ALL children born in this country MUST be the offspring of a U.S. citizen to be conferred citizenship, how would that exclude children born to Hispanic citizens? Please explain how requiring at least one parent to be a citizen of the U.S. would discriminate against Hispanics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
I happen to think changing the 14th is a very interesting idea.

I think we should require high school graduation to be a citizen. \

If you can't make that minimal level of education you simply are not equipped to vote in how we run the country.

So when you open the 14th open it wide. Maybe we can ship those who can't make citizen to Mexico or elsewhere so we don't have to deal with them.

Make a much nicer country.
Utter nonsense. No, citizenship should be determined by the citizenship of the parents, as is the policy for all other first-world nations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Always the same nonsense.

Where have I ever advocated changing US Immigration law? Cite some specifics. And when you can't admit you lied. Your writings continue to show you are an unprincipled person. YOu make it up as you go along...

I seek no changes to our immigration laws. They suffer from failure to enforce not from being defectiive. That we have reached a point where they are simply unenforcable does not make them wrong...simply unenforcable.

YOu continue to imply that I have some buried reason for wanting to change all this. You are a liar. I have none. Now put up our shutup.
You advocate the legalization of foreign nationals who are living in this country in violation of our laws. According to you, they should be permitted to remain here, with all of the rights and privileges afforded legal residents. I do believe that would require “changing” our immigration laws. As it currently stands, they do not have a legal presence, are not eligible to obtain a SSN or work, are not eligible to receive certain benefits, and are deportable, ILLEGAL aliens. So, yes, you do advocate changing our immigration laws.
 
Old 06-12-2011, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Ohio
13,951 posts, read 10,321,320 times
Reputation: 7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Sorry, no I disagree that is too radical of a solution to make illegal entry a capital offense punishable by death. It is comments like these that make our entire anti-illegal immigration movement look bad because the pro's will jump on this as an example to smear our entire movement.
Oh, I see.

In my experiance there are many people out there who want the problem to go away but dont want to take any dramatic steps to get it done! Do you think we { americans } are afforded the same courtesy in other countries that we give them? Absolutely not. Go to korea illegaly, get caught, and see what happens to you. If these people have no incentive to stay out of this country, if they know that all that will happen is they will be deported, they will be back the next day.

One thing I know for certain, these immigrant { illegals } should not be afforded the same rights as citizens. They should not be given amnesty, not be given a driver license, not be afforded OUR constitutional rights AT ALL! Until they have a reason to not want to come here, they will continue to do so.

What would you suggest???
 
Old 06-12-2011, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,116 posts, read 20,161,295 times
Reputation: 8204
Changing the XIVth Amendment wuld require a Constitutional Amendment
 
Old 06-12-2011, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,238,764 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
Changing the XIVth Amendment wuld require a Constitutional Amendment
Time to get it done.
 
Old 06-12-2011, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,821,083 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S. 123 View Post
Oh, I see.

In my experiance there are many people out there who want the problem to go away but dont want to take any dramatic steps to get it done! Do you think we { americans } are afforded the same courtesy in other countries that we give them? Absolutely not. Go to korea illegaly, get caught, and see what happens to you. If these people have no incentive to stay out of this country, if they know that all that will happen is they will be deported, they will be back the next day.

One thing I know for certain, these immigrant { illegals } should not be afforded the same rights as citizens. They should not be given amnesty, not be given a driver license, not be afforded OUR constitutional rights AT ALL! Until they have a reason to not want to come here, they will continue to do so.

What would you suggest???
I understand your frustration. I am also frustrated with our spineless government, the lax enforcement, and wrist-slapping for violators (both illegal employers and employees). However, we can’t simply execute people for violating our immigration laws. We are a far better nation than that.

We simply need to militarize our borders, and give our soldiers the same directives as those guarding the borders in foreign lands. We must also stop providing illegals with jobs and tax-funded benefits. If they can’t work, and can’t receive government handouts, there will be very little incentive for them to remain. First, and foremost, employers MUST be held accountable. They should receive multi-million dollar fines, and a mandatory 10-year prison sentence, with no possibility of early release. Until employers believe the risks outweigh the benefits, they will continue to flout the law. Of course, we must also end Birthright Citizenship, because many illegals will remain by simply giving birth, and living off taxpayers.
 
Old 06-12-2011, 11:12 AM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,511,548 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I understand your frustration. I am also frustrated with our spineless government, the lax enforcement, and wrist-slapping for violators (both illegal employers and employees). However, we can’t simply execute people for violating our immigration laws. We are a far better nation than that.

We simply need to militarize our borders, and give our soldiers the same directives as those guarding the borders in foreign lands. We must also stop providing illegals with jobs and tax-funded benefits. If they can’t work, and can’t receive government handouts, there will be very little incentive for them to remain. First, and foremost, employers MUST be held accountable. They should receive multi-million dollar fines, and a mandatory 10-year prison sentence, with no possibility of early release. Until employers believe the risks outweigh the benefits, they will continue to flout the law. Of course, we must also end Birthright Citizenship, because many illegals will remain by simply giving birth, and living off taxpayers.
Soldiers on the border has always resulted in bad soldiers and bad borders. You want border guards. It is a policing skill not military.

It is doubtful there is any way to tightly seal that border. The people live too close to it on both sides. And various zones are geographically difficult to impossible.

We might I suppose clear a half mile along the border. That will go over very big in San Diego and Yuma. Without that it is always going to leak.

If you are completely successful with employers you simply force the illegals off the books and into the grey economy. Still better than Mexico by a lot.

Birthright citizenship is constitutional. Rant all you want. It is not going to change.

The problem was allowed to get hopelessly out of control. Now real fixes are blocked by the antis and deportation blocked by the huge task and the lack of will. So we will take the worst case path likely with significant increases in the illegals when the economy improves.
 
Old 06-12-2011, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,821,083 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Soldiers on the border has always resulted in bad soldiers and bad borders. You want border guards. It is a policing skill not military.

It is doubtful there is any way to tightly seal that border. The people live too close to it on both sides. And various zones are geographically difficult to impossible.

We might I suppose clear a half mile along the border. That will go over very big in San Diego and Yuma. Without that it is always going to leak.
If we hope to retain our sovereignty, nothing less than militarization will work. Unless we employ serious deterrents, illegal immigration will continue to flourish. Please cite the “bad soldiers” incidents.

Clearly, you do not want our borders protected against foreign incursions. Otherwise, you would not find excuses for allowing them to remain porous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
If you are completely successful with employers you simply force the illegals off the books and into the grey economy. Still better than Mexico by a lot.
I believe we have had this discussion before. Deny all freebies, and their underground employment will have little benefit. Sorry, but they simply cannot survive in this country without government handouts. Furthermore, there are not enough Hispanic ‘Mom and Pop’ stores, or friends and relatives to support 30+ million illegals. That is simply a pipe dream.

You don’t sound like you actually want illegal employment to end. Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Birthright citizenship is constitutional. Rant all you want. It is not going to change.

The problem was allowed to get hopelessly out of control. Now real fixes are blocked by the antis and deportation blocked by the huge task and the lack of will. So we will take the worst case path likely with significant increases in the illegals when the economy improves.
Un-constitutional? Hardly. Please cite the section of the Constitution which explicitly grants citizenship to the children of illegal aliens.

There are more options than deportation and amnesty. How about we actually enforce our laws, for a change?

By the way, what “real fixes” are you referring to? And, rewarding lawbreakers isn’t a “fix.” We have already traveled down that road with devastating results.
 
Old 06-13-2011, 07:51 AM
 
5,771 posts, read 2,964,585 times
Reputation: 5804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
In addition, you are assuming the majority of Hispanics support illegal aliens. That is simply not true.
I agree with this.
I live in a Hispanic-majority area, and I have watched many Hispanic-Americans lose out because of illegals. A very talented Hispanic-American mason we know, who is a third-generation mason, was making very good money at his job, but now cannot compete with illegals hired for 1/3 what he charges, so he is looking to be retrained in computers. We hear this from housecleaners, restaurant workers, landscapers, construction workers. They are fed up with the illegals taking their jobs, increasing the crime, and lowering the standards in their schools.

What I don't understand is why more Hispanic-Americans don't speak out more loudly about this. La Raza must have them intimidated??
 
Old 06-13-2011, 07:59 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
I agree with this.
I live in a Hispanic-majority area, and I have watched many Hispanic-Americans lose out because of illegals. A very talented Hispanic-American mason we know, who is a third-generation mason, was making very good money at his job, but now cannot compete with illegals hired for 1/3 what he charges, so he is looking to be retrained in computers. We hear this from housecleaners, restaurant workers, landscapers, construction workers. They are fed up with the illegals taking their jobs, increasing the crime, and lowering the standards in their schools.

What I don't understand is why more Hispanic-Americans don't speak out more loudly about this. La Raza must have them intimidated??
Now for the truth:

LD Tracking Poll — Latino Voters Overwhelmingly Support DREAM Act « Latino Decisions

And:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...sion-poll.html
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