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Old 06-26-2011, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,237,724 times
Reputation: 410

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie47 View Post
Why do you think some people's ancestors were slaughtering the Indians? They did it to pass on ill-gotten land to their kids.
The Indians like my moms people the Aztecs were mean to other Indians. Many groups of Indians KILLED most the ones who lost but kept some of the kids and women who could have babies. It aint just a white thing.

 
Old 06-26-2011, 10:39 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
The Indians like my moms people the Aztecs were mean to other Indians. Many groups of Indians KILLED most the ones who lost but kept some of the kids and women who could have babies. It aint just a white thing.
Pretty sure he wasn't saying white people are the only group that kills other people.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 10:41 AM
 
192 posts, read 91,366 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
The Indians like my moms people the Aztecs were mean to other Indians. Many groups of Indians KILLED most the ones who lost but kept some of the kids and women who could have babies. It aint just a white thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Pretty sure he wasn't saying white people are the only group that kills other people.
Yep. Why were those Indians killing other Indians? In many cases, to take new lands, which get passed on to the murderers' children, who may or may not be guilty for the sins of their fathers.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 10:57 AM
 
82 posts, read 73,572 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAnumber1 View Post
bump 4 Raven
What's the right number of people to house in the US? how is it maintained?

First off, a few philosophies (not strong enough to be theories, certainly not strong enough to be considered basic physics).

. There's too many people on the Earth, the anthropocene epoch is real and will show up in the fossil record. Regardless of how much we hope, and hope makes a bad plan, human ingenuity will not make up for numbers. If you are interested in profoundly effecting worldwide ecosystems due to human footprint, we are well on our way.

. US citizens do more than their share to harm the planet. More US citizens = more pollution.

. The ecosystem within the US has limits.

. The worldwide population before the explosion that come from mined energy and modern modern farming practice was around 1B. US population at the time, which happened about the same time as the westward build-out is roughly 50M - 75M. This was provably a sustainable population.

. I have ten fingers, so 100M seems a good rough number that allows for some headroom for expansion due to technical advance. It also makes beachfront property cheaper than current levels of population.

. The US was well on it's way to ZPG before this last burst of immigration, similar to the burst from 100+ years ago. An aging population is a natural side effect of this plus improvements in health. I see no reason why US population, if no mass immigration had occurred, wouldn't follow Western Europe practice in dropping to replacement level or below.

. At some point growth in both population and the economy goes away, otherwise the doubling rate has you filling this corner of the galaxy with human flesh and/or cheap plastic toys with the speed of light as an upper limit. The growth can peter off with some panache or in an ugly style. Choose yer poison.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:04 AM
 
82 posts, read 73,572 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie47 View Post
Yep. Why were those Indians killing other Indians? In many cases, to take new lands, .
..or to reconsecrate temples.

The Aztecs had a knife party where they ground through 50,000 people (10k-80k depending on source) in a few days to keep a building up to snuff. Four tables working 'round the clock, throwing the bodies down the side of the pyramid.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:07 AM
 
192 posts, read 91,366 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRavenSpeaks View Post
..or to reconsecrate temples.

The Aztecs had a knife party where they ground through 50,000 people (10k-80k depending on source) in a few days to keep a building up to snuff. Four tables working 'round the clock, throwing the bodies down the side of the pyramid.
Yep. And their children got to benefit from the alleged increase holiness of the temple. Whatever god they were sacrificing to would allegedly smile increasingly upon them for generations.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:34 AM
 
118 posts, read 80,153 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swedgin View Post
Chicago Nut, I'm on your side, but I'm sensing an inconsistency here that I can't figure out. Are we responsible for the actions of our ancestors or not?

I'd appreciate your chiming in here as it might help me clarify my own position. Thanks.
This is one of the funniest things I've read in awhile...

Asking for a clarification means he will report you, don't you know?
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Arizona
93 posts, read 60,667 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRavenSpeaks View Post
By God, a straightforward and honest answer. You sir, deserve a medal.

Why doesn't anyone ever say that? There's been a tremendous amount of verbage concerning whether or not it's right for a local (as opposed to federal, for whom it's OK) policeman to determine nationality, and the other hundred issues with immigration enforcement.

Just so I get this straight, is that essentially the philosophy of the pro-illegal crowd? That there should be no limits to immigration to the US (excepting, let's say, people with heinous criminal records...no jaywalking for instance).

If so, that should be the sole topic in a forum like this.

A quick follow up to SFPeak, if you'll indulge me. To the extent of your knowledge, should that same philosophy be applied to all other countries? just to those that are immigrant based (Australia and New Zealand spring to mind)? Canada? Just the US?
All nations. If they want to play by the rules, take em in.

I am also for reforming trade laws, and tariffs. I don't think we should allow China's corporations or any other to set up sweat shops on our borders. That's where our government is slipping up. Individuals crossing the border is not the problem, corporate criminals exploiting the labor there is.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:46 AM
 
82 posts, read 73,572 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFPeak View Post
All nations. If they want to play by the rules, take em in.
.
What do you think the net effect to the US would be? After an initial systemic shock of course, as that is quite a change.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Arizona
93 posts, read 60,667 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRavenSpeaks View Post
What do you think the net effect to the US would be? After an initial systemic shock of course, as that is quite a change.
Once reasonable laws are in effect, legal workers would come and go when they wished, not fearing the border as before, and those that wanted to stay and become citizens would have to follow the immigration laws, learn English, stay employed and out of trouble for a set number of years and then become Americans.

Once the laws are spelled out and not impossible to follow, things can get better.

Unfortunately, there are those that hate and will always put up barriers and convoluted laws.... State Sen. Russell Pearce, and Joe Arpiao in my state are such...
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