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Old 06-17-2011, 03:04 AM
Yac
 
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Old 06-17-2011, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,819,795 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
For the record, it's not a position I believe a church should espouse, either. Just as a heads up... most non-Mormons see all Mormons as blindly accepting all of their Church's policies on everything under the sun. The truth is, that's not how it works. We are individuals. We listen to our leadership, value their opinions and then make our own decisions. I honestly don't know either Mitt Romney's or Jon Huntsman's personal positions on undocumented immigrants. Maybe they're right in line with the Church's leadership's, but that's not necessarily a given.
Fair enough. I am a Baptist, but, I do not adhere to any denominational dictates. The problem, as I see it, with many Christians, is their blind faith in Church leadership (man) rather than in God. With that said, I still do not understand why the Mormon Church would support amnesty for illegal aliens, given that, to my knowledge, few, if any, illegal aliens are Mormon. On the other hand, most illegal aliens are Catholic, so I can clearly understand the pandering by the Catholic Church, particularly, given their dwindling congregations, and multi-million dollar legal settlements.

My primary objection, in addition to the sheer hypocrisy, is to the comments made by the Mormon leadership by their reference to illegal aliens as “children of God” as though that somehow grants them the right to enter a country illegally, or violate the laws of a sovereign nation. The Mormon Church, and all other religious organizations advocating on behalf of illegal aliens, should leave God out of the debate. This is not a religious or moral issue. This is simply an issue of lawlessness, and the fleecing of this nation by people who have no right to be here, or to expect, let alone DEMAND, anything from the citizens of this country.

If these religious leaders truly want to help illegal aliens, they should work with the government of Mexico and other nations to improve conditions in their countries, and to implore them to end the abuse of U.S. taxpayers by their citizens. If they MUST invoke God or religion, they should do so by emphasizing the numerous aspects of illegal immigration that are, without a doubt, immoral, and contrary to Christianity.
 
Old 06-17-2011, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,277 posts, read 20,883,681 times
Reputation: 9954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Fair enough. I am a Baptist, but, I do not adhere to any denominational dictates. The problem, as I see it, with many Christians, is their blind faith in Church leadership (man) rather than in God. With that said, I still do not understand why the Mormon Church would support amnesty for illegal aliens, given that, to my knowledge, few, if any, illegal aliens are Mormon. On the other hand, most illegal aliens are Catholic, so I can clearly understand the pandering by the Catholic Church, particularly, given their dwindling congregations, and multi-million dollar legal settlements.

My primary objection, in addition to the sheer hypocrisy, is to the comments made by the Mormon leadership by their reference to illegal aliens as “children of God” as though that somehow grants them the right to enter a country illegally, or violate the laws of a sovereign nation. The Mormon Church, and all other religious organizations advocating on behalf of illegal aliens, should leave God out of the debate. This is not a religious or moral issue. This is simply an issue of lawlessness, and the fleecing of this nation by people who have no right to be here, or to expect, let alone DEMAND, anything from the citizens of this country.

If these religious leaders truly want to help illegal aliens, they should work with the government of Mexico and other nations to improve conditions in their countries, and to implore them to end the abuse of U.S. taxpayers by their citizens. If they MUST invoke God or religion, they should do so by emphasizing the numerous aspects of illegal immigration that are, without a doubt, immoral, and contrary to Christianity.
Excellent points.
 
Old 06-17-2011, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,685 posts, read 27,909,805 times
Reputation: 7177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Apparently not as much as you think you do. Utah and Salt Lake City already has a fairly sizable Hispanic population and I suspect quite of few of them are undocumented.

The problems you just described really aren't a problem here. You really need to understand where the LDS Church's position originates in order to see why it exists. Mormons were driven out of their homes within the boundaries of the United States and forced to leave Illinois in mid-winter, to haul their meager belongings across 1300 miles to settle outside of the country. They were simultaneously being persecuted by the federal government and being asked to fight for the United States in the war against Mexico. In Missouri, it was actually legal to kill a Mormon until 1976. The Mormon people know how it feels to be persecuted. I'm sure this explanation isn't going to change anybody's mind about Mormonism, but for those who are willing to consider this background, it could explain the Church's position today about undocumented workers.

That said, I am personally opposed to illegal immigration. My husband and I have worked with refugees from two different countries who entered this country legally, and I believe that that's how all people should enter the country.

I would have preferred you replied to the entire post or at least the last two lines:

Quote:
That, or they can hop on a plane to LI and I can show them what they can expect in the next 10 years if they decide to roll out the red carpet for the illegals.

But what do I know?
What I do know is that a number of people on LI had the same opinion as you a short 10 years ago "________ already has a fairly sizable Hispanic population and I suspect quite of few of them are undocumented." As soon as it became apparent that the community leaders told LE to back off, more illegal immigrants came here. Things have changed significantly in some towns in less than 10 years. Church leaders were out there, leading the way to fight for the plight of the illegals.

I am not singling out all Mormons, but correlating that the leaders who are doing the exact same thing in your beautiful state which our church leaders and politicians did here.

I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong in 10 years.

Thank you for the brief and interesting background on Mormons. Why were they persecuted? Feel free to DM me with some things to read about it. I'll be out in UT in a couple of weeks and look forward to learning more about the people as well as the land.
 
Old 06-17-2011, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,277 posts, read 20,883,681 times
Reputation: 9954
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Thank you for the brief and interesting background on Mormons. Why were they persecuted? Feel free to DM me with some things to read about it. I'll be out in UT in a couple of weeks and look forward to learning more about the people as well as the land.
I'll tell you what... Why don't you start a thread over on the Utah or Salt Lake City forums saying that you're going to be visiting Utah. That will remind me to get back to you. I don't have time to do so right now, and I don't want to forget. Could you do that, please?
 
Old 06-17-2011, 10:25 PM
 
Location: SWUS
5,414 posts, read 7,631,078 times
Reputation: 5781
This is an interesting thing to hear considering I've heard of more and more people of Hispanic descent converting to Mormonism. Unfortunately, I cannot recall where I saw/heard the information, so please take it with a grain of salt.

 
Old 06-17-2011, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,277 posts, read 20,883,681 times
Reputation: 9954
Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanJP View Post
This is an interesting thing to hear considering I've heard of more and more people of Hispanic descent converting to Mormonism. Unfortunately, I cannot recall where I saw/heard the information, so please take it with a grain of salt.

It's accurate.
 
Old 06-17-2011, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,277 posts, read 20,883,681 times
Reputation: 9954
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I really wish people would stop living in the past and nursing old grudges endlessly.
When people stop bad-mouthing Mormons every chance they get, I'm sure we'll stop nursing the old grudges. At any rate, my comment was intended solely as as an explanation of why the LDS Church has the perspective it does on illegal immigration. That's all it was, so don't read anything more into it. I wasn't even voicing support for the Church's perspective.
 
Old 06-17-2011, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,685 posts, read 27,909,805 times
Reputation: 7177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I'll tell you what... Why don't you start a thread over on the Utah or Salt Lake City forums saying that you're going to be visiting Utah. That will remind me to get back to you. I don't have time to do so right now, and I don't want to forget. Could you do that, please?
Thanks! Will do.
 
Old 06-18-2011, 06:45 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,155,041 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
When people stop bad-mouthing Mormons every chance they get, I'm sure we'll stop nursing the old grudges. At any rate, my comment was intended solely as as an explanation of why the LDS Church has the perspective it does on illegal immigration. That's all it was, so don't read anything more into it. I wasn't even voicing support for the Church's perspective.
I hear more bad mouthing these days of the Muslims then I do of any other religeous sect. I know you aren't voicing your support for the Mormon church's perspective on illegal immigration but I am trying to understand your explanation of their support for illegal aliens. As I said, I just don't get it because the persecuted Mormons and blacks of the past were citizens and not illegal aliens. You would think they would be defending Muslim citizens in this country since they are a religeous sect just as the Mormon's are, rather than illegal aliens which are not.

Last edited by chicagonut; 06-18-2011 at 07:36 AM..
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