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Old 06-21-2011, 08:33 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,176,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
Did I mention anything about them being discriminatory? A little defensive, are we?

There are millions of people that are willing to risk life and limb to come over here to work their asses off in deplorable uncertain conditions for the simple hope of earning a better life for themselves and their families. I know my ancestors came over here with the same expectations/motivations and I suspect many if not most of the ancestors of a significant portion of the posters on this forum did as well. I believe that, for the most part, they had an overwhelmingly positive impact on our country. To deny people the opportunity to improve their lot in life who are quite obviously hungry for it as is evidenced by my first sentance solely because of some arbitrary quota is not only myopic/ dumb from an economic perspective, it's also seems to go against one of the facets of our country that helped it become the great nation it is today. In short our policy is un-American.
Yes, you mentioned Jim Crow which has nothing to do with today.

Doesn't matter how much they risk coming over here. Our quotas for legal immigration are what they are based on it not negatively impacting our own citizens. So they are not heroes but completely uncaring how their presence here will impact our own.

You cannot compare immigration decades ago to today. Our population has grown to over 310 million now with jobs and resources becoming scarce that is why we have had to limit immigration and there is nothing un-American about protecting our own citizens while taking in reasonable numbers of immigrants annually. There are 2 billion impoverished all over the world, is it un-American not to take them all in and commit national suicide? Educate yourself on this subject, please.

 
Old 06-21-2011, 08:36 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,176,297 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
The proposed Utah law has nothing to do with "legalization". The proposed Utah law would allow illegal aliens to work in the state of Utah. It is not a pathway to citizenship nor a permenant action.

The proposed Utah work permit only allows an undocumented worker residing in Utah to work in Utah.

If you got a problem with Mormans or this Utah law...dont move to Utah or join the LDS church.
Since Obama and the pro-illegals think that the states have no right to defend themselves from illegal immigration because it is a federal matter, why is Utah making its own laws permitting illegals to stay and work here when that is a federal matter? Hypocricy, much?
 
Old 06-21-2011, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
Wait, do they still prevent black people from joining the church?
No, they don’t. But, why did they change their stance?

It is my understanding that after Bob Jones University lost its tax-exempt status due to its discriminatory policies, the Mormon Church, fearing a similar fate, chose to admit black members. So, did they actually have a change of heart, or did they change their racist policy to protect their tax-exempt status?
 
Old 06-21-2011, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1751texan View Post
The proposed Utah law has nothing to do with "legalization". The proposed Utah law would allow illegal aliens to work in the state of Utah. It is not a pathway to citizenship nor a permenant action.

The proposed Utah work permit only allows an undocumented worker residing in Utah to work in Utah.

If you got a problem with Mormans or this Utah law...dont move to Utah or join the LDS church.
Hmmm. . . We are discussing the Mormon Church and their advocacy for the legalization of illegal aliens. Or, did you confuse this thread with another? As a reminder, the title of this thread is, “Mormon Leaders Say “Undocumented” Immigrants Should Be Allowed to Work and Stay.” It is NOT, “Mormon Leaders Support the Utah Immigration Law.”

Tell me, how would illegal aliens be granted the right to “work and stay” in this country, if not through the legalization of their status? The last time I checked, illegal aliens are here in violation of our laws, ergo, ILLEGAL, and are ineligible to work.

If you want to discuss the particulars of the Utah immigration law, please start a thread, or simply resurrect one.
 
Old 06-21-2011, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,299 posts, read 20,965,943 times
Reputation: 10000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
Wait, do they still prevent black people from joining the church?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar
No, they don’t. But, why did they change their stance?

It is my understanding that after Bob Jones University lost its tax-exempt status due to its discriminatory policies, the Mormon Church, fearing a similar fate, chose to admit black members. So, did they actually have a change of heart, or did they change their racist policy to protect their tax-exempt status?
They never prohibited Black people from joining the Church. Black men were prohibited to hold the Church's priesthood for quite a number of years. This was changed 33 years ago. Blacks have always been able to join the Church and there have always been integrated congregations. Today roughly one in ten new converts is Black.

And this is all totally off-topic.
 
Old 06-21-2011, 10:59 AM
 
403 posts, read 281,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwebbster View Post
Right on, as usual. I believe Jesus said to "obey the laws of the land" as well.
Great post Benicar.
This is a foolish maxim to follow. It basically suggests tacit approval of every unjust, discriminatory, and immoral law ever created from the fugitive slave laws to the myriad of horrendous laws in countries throughout the middle east and Africa.
 
Old 06-21-2011, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
They never prohibited Black people from joining the Church. Black men were prohibited to hold the Church's priesthood for quite a number of years. This was changed 33 years ago. Blacks have always been able to join the Church and there have always been integrated congregations. Today roughly one in ten new converts is Black.

And this is all totally off-topic.
Yes, his question was off-topic. However, by your own admission, the Mormon Church did in fact practice discrimination for over one hundred years. I said it is my “understanding” they changed their stance for fear of losing their tax-exempt status. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Although also off-topic, do they “discourage” interracial relationships? I am trying to understand why they are so concerned about discrimination on the basis of “culture” or “race” relative to illegal immigration, if they continue to harbor such racist opinions toward others.

From the article. . .

Quote:
“The history of mass expulsion or mistreatment of individuals or families is cause for concern especially where race, culture, or religion are involved,” the leaders write. “This should give pause to any policy that contemplates targeting any one group, particularly if that group comes mostly from one heritage.”
 
Old 06-21-2011, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
This is a foolish maxim to follow. It basically suggests tacit approval of every unjust, discriminatory, and immoral law ever created from the fugitive slave laws to the myriad of horrendous laws in countries throughout the middle east and Africa.
Please cite the unjust, discriminatory, and immoral aspects of our immigration laws.
 
Old 06-21-2011, 12:58 PM
 
18,856 posts, read 30,569,915 times
Reputation: 26003
Of course the LDS church wants illegals to be allowed to work, how else could they pay ten percent of their income to the Mormon church otherwise? The LDS religion is the fastest growing religion in the world, the LDS church has not only an international voice, but two current Republicans, Romney and Huntsman are running for the presidential nomination. I wonder what they think of their religion's political stance on this issue?

Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
 
Old 06-21-2011, 01:21 PM
 
403 posts, read 281,398 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
Illegal aliens are un American. Get in line. Follow OUR rules. WE will decide if we want you or not.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that bedrock tenant of our liberal Republic. Where have I seen that before? Was it in the Declaration of Independence, oh no it was inscribed on the Statue of Liberty...
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