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Old 06-27-2011, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,176 posts, read 862,940 times
Reputation: 1287

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elián González View Post
History kinda shows that when that does start happening in other countries, the US, and other countries, step in. Unless you can provide any proof where openly shooting immigrants was condoned by other nations. Yeah, I know, the good ol' days when genocide was cheered!



Then you don't agree with Chi-Nut. She does give a crap, and race, er, I mean White culture, matters.
I don't know if you can read but i said PROBABLY. Most countries would probably see what illegals are doing as an invasion. To bad our government doesn't see that. And you said immigrants. The people crossing our border are Illegal immigrants.
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:59 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam View Post
No, your the one skipping the issue, which is NOT whether they're illegal presents hurt anyone, If it didn't, there wouldn't be an issue.
The issue is whether illegals should keep breaking the Laws and getting away with it.
...no, it's not.

Is the issue with marijuana reform questions "whether they should keep breaking the laws and getting away with it?" Or is it "should that be illegal?"
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:05 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
You know what else is? Advocating the preservation of arbitrary barriers to entry into the country for the sole purpose of wage inflation and job security because you and/or your friends can't hack it when they have to compete against people who are truly hungry to take advantage of the opportunities this country has to offer. So you dehumanize illegal immigrants by making broad generalizations based off dubious anecdotes and biased studies because you are greedy and you allow yourself to be ruled by base tribalistic impulses. You wave your arms argue in half truths and try to bully opponents by calling to question their patriotism for simply disagreeing with you. It's all a distraction in a vain attempt to hide the painfully obvious fact that your position isn't morally superior, it's morally repugnant.
Broad generalizations? Aren't you the one who is on here always proclaiming that Americans are too lazy to work and that's why we need to bring in unlimited millions of illegals?

And no - why should any Americans have to compete with third world beggars for work?

Why can't people of other countries look at what it took to build the USA into a strong prosperous nation and do the same for their own countries?

The idea that other countries should just give up social reforms and instead all their needy people be brought to the USA for a comfortable life is absurd.

It would be far better for these people to stay home, improve themselves there by staying in school and learning how not to have babies at 14 years of age and crank one out every year when they cannot afford them.

That would lead to more prosperity and stability in their own country. They wouldn't all have to sneak over the borders to demand their citizenship here, they could be happy citizens in their own lands.

There really is absolutely no good excuse that all prosperity ends at the southern border -- what changes at that border? Not the air, not the land, not the two ocean coasts. Why are these people not making it back home when the middle classes of their country are growing?

Why do you want everyone from Mexico having to abandon ship when Mexico is among the wealthiest nations? Why must they all leave to become the cheap peon class of the USA? How is becoming the cheap servants in another land improving oneself?
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:12 AM
 
403 posts, read 280,717 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Broad generalizations? Aren't you the one who is on here always proclaiming that Americans are too lazy to work and that's why we need to bring in unlimited millions of illegals?
Please show where I ever said "Americans are too lazy to work?" I've argued that Hispanic immigrant labor is, on average, far superior to the equivalent qualified American labor, I've admitted that this is based solely on anecdotal experience and I'll further admit that there are definitely American migrant workers who have as good or better work ethic than Hispanic labor, it's just that those types are in short supply relative to willing Hispanic/other immigrant migrant labor. I think there is good evidence based on the labor shortages in Georgia that there are very few Americans who want to do that type of labor. Also there was this program: United Farm Workers invite Americans to 'Take Our Jobs' - Jul. 7, 2010
there were very few takers.
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:20 AM
 
403 posts, read 280,717 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Why do you want everyone from Mexico having to abandon ship when Mexico is among the wealthiest nations? Why must they all leave to become the cheap peon class of the USA? How is becoming the cheap servants in another land improving oneself?
Who is saying they all must leave? Are all illegal immigrants aren't becoming the cheap peon class of the USA, even if many start out that way that certainly doesn't guarantee they will stay that way. (That bolded is part of that dehumanization we are talking about, please stop it)
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:28 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
Please show where I ever said "Americans are too lazy to work?" I've argued that Hispanic immigrant labor is, on average, far superior to the equivalent qualified American labor, I've admitted that this is based solely on anecdotal experience and I'll further admit that there are definitely American migrant workers who have as good or better work ethic than Hispanic labor, it's just that those types are in short supply relative to willing Hispanic/other immigrant migrant labor. I think there is good evidence based on the labor shortages in Georgia that there are very few Americans who want to do that type of labor. Also there was this program: United Farm Workers invite Americans to 'Take Our Jobs' - Jul. 7, 2010
there were very few takers.
If you read the articles about those jobs, there is mention of the very low wages being paid. Also they offered the jobs to probationers who walked off them because criminals have the option to not work for a living and can expect welfare handouts if they don't feel like working.

We do need to stop all welfare for able-bodied types, including non-illegals and that will help get the work ethic back. Many of us agree that welfare recipients do tend to be very lazy - but why should one group be paid to lay around while we create new classes of foreign low-wage workers?

Get the wages up to something reasonable, something that beats the welfare life at least and very likely people will fill those jobs.
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:58 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
If you read the articles about those jobs, there is mention of the very low wages being paid. Also they offered the jobs to probationers who walked off them because criminals have the option to not work for a living and can expect welfare handouts if they don't feel like working.

We do need to stop all welfare for able-bodied types, including non-illegals and that will help get the work ethic back. Many of us agree that welfare recipients do tend to be very lazy - but why should one group be paid to lay around while we create new classes of foreign low-wage workers?

Get the wages up to something reasonable, something that beats the welfare life at least and very likely people will fill those jobs.
Have you noticed that the pro-illegals always have to go back to the crop picking argument such as what is going on in Georgia even though they have been told that for shortages of labor in that industry there are unlimited H-2A visas for legal foreign workers? Why do they completely ignore the fact that very few illegals are working in that industry and that most of them are doing jobs that Americans will do? Why do they continue to smear American workers as inferior to Hispanic illegals? There is not one iota of truth to that except that the illegal lives in fear of deporation so they are williing to put up with long hours and little pay. Make them legal and we'll see how much more superior they are to an American worker. They would be in for a rude awakening.
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:59 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoltronFlyer View Post
Ive been assured numerous times that able bodied Americans would be all over these jobs, especially in our current economic situation. But yet curiously no one is rushing to take these jobs. Yeah the wages are low, thats kind of the deal with jobs like that. Hence why Americans arent exactly rushing to fill them.
Just another lame crop picking argument. See my post above. I refuse to read any more smears of American workers by the pro-illegals. You just jumped on to my ignore list.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,237,724 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
You know what else is? Advocating the preservation of arbitrary barriers to entry into the country for the sole purpose of wage inflation and job security because you and/or your friends can't hack it when they have to compete against people who are truly hungry to take advantage of the opportunities this country has to offer. So you dehumanize illegal immigrants by making broad generalizations based off dubious anecdotes and biased studies because you are greedy and you allow yourself to be ruled by base tribalistic impulses. You wave your arms argue in half truths and try to bully opponents by calling to question their patriotism for simply disagreeing with you. It's all a distraction in a vain attempt to hide the painfully obvious fact that your position isn't morally superior, it's morally repugnant.
ILLEGAL aliens aint moral. Protecting the USA IS moral. If it means using the US Army to close the border, oh well.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,361,547 times
Reputation: 1570
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoltronFlyer View Post
Ive been assured numerous times that able bodied Americans would be all over these jobs, especially in our current economic situation. But yet curiously no one is rushing to take these jobs. Yeah the wages are low, thats kind of the deal with jobs like that. Hence why Americans arent exactly rushing to fill them.
Don't you find something sick in the whole issue of ag labor wages? People are screaming that we are going to have a food shortage if Americans don't start filling these now vacant jobs. For such an essential need the employers get away with paying crap wages, yet athletes, actors and rock stars are making millions for basically playing the parts of court jesters, only good for their entertainment value.

Here are the facts...

Americans, unlike illegal immigrants, do not share a house with 20 other relatives.

With the high cost of housing, food, gas, insurance, clothing, etc... Americans require a decent wage in order to meet their financial obligations. Unlike illegals, many Americans will not be qualified to receive government assistance in order to meet their living needs.

Greedy employers who hire cheap illegal labor instead of offering a fair, decent wage to Americans are part of the economic problem. They are also un-American.
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