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Old 06-29-2011, 11:39 AM
 
403 posts, read 281,234 times
Reputation: 60

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
ILLEGAL aliens aint moral. Protecting the USA IS moral. If it means using the US Army to close the border, oh well.
By that logic, fugitive slaves or the people that aided them weren't moral either.

Is a man rushing his wife to the hospital doing 90 in a 55 because she is in the process of giving birth also immoral?
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:50 AM
 
403 posts, read 281,234 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post

Here are the facts...

Americans, unlike illegal immigrants, do not share a house with 20 other relatives.

With the high cost of housing, food, gas, insurance, clothing, etc... Americans require a decent wage in order to meet their financial obligations. Unlike illegals, many Americans will not be qualified to receive government assistance in order to meet their living needs.

Greedy employers who hire cheap illegal labor instead of offering a fair, decent wage to Americans are part of the economic problem. They are also un-American.
The second two points are opinions. For your first point please provide a source to support your assertion that all illegal immigrants live with twenty relatives.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: John & Ken-ville
13,692 posts, read 15,152,308 times
Reputation: 9493
You can talk in circles all you want about how noble illegals are and how they're here to work etc. etc. Bring up "fugitive slaves" and all that historical garbage when black people were PROPERTY and their CHILDREN were PROPERTY which has ZERO to do with an illegal birthing a child in the USA because they were never considered PROPERTY so the 14th Amendment does NOT apply to them, and also talk about "the huddled masses yearning to breathe free" (whatever the note that is written on the statue of liberty - a gift from France), you can talk about the "intention" of what the original idea of the USA was by the founding fathers. IT DOESN'T MATTER.

If you are residing in the United States without the legal authority given by ICE, the Department of Borders and Customs, and the State Department you're here against the law.

You don't have the legal right to be here.

Period.

If you snuck across the border, you're here illegally.

If you overstayed your visa and didn't renew it, you're here illegally.

If you were shot out of your mothers uterus and fell out on US Soil, your MOTHER is here illegally and her nation of origin is where she came from and your slippery backside is also citizen of the nation your mother came from by virtue of you being born FROM her. And the US should repatriate you on entry.

Last edited by LuckyGem; 06-29-2011 at 12:24 PM..
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:07 PM
 
403 posts, read 281,234 times
Reputation: 60
No, it's a simple analogy. You think illegals are immoral simply for the fact that they are here and that's against the law. If you are consistent in your thinking you would also think fugitive slaves and their enablers were immoral simply because it was against the law at the time or you should think a guy driving wrecklessly to get his wife to the hospital is not moral as well. If your position is based on the rule of law as you claim then you should be comfortable agreeing with this logic. If you aren't I'd suggest that you don't actually value the rule of law. Your desire to keep illegal immigrants out of our country must be based on something else.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,378,097 times
Reputation: 1575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
The second two points are opinions. For your first point please provide a source to support your assertion that all illegal immigrants live with twenty relatives.
Occupancy Level laws have been enacted partly due to the propensity of illegal immigrants to cram as many people into a house as possible.

"Occupancy restrictions exist in light of the following concerns:
•limited parking. Overcrowded houses promote congested parking areas, impinging on neighbors and potentially reducing neighborhood property values;

•exploitation of college students and illegal immigrants. Lower-income groups are more likely to submit to overcrowded, unsanitary living conditions;

•rowdy parties, especially near colleges. Parties are more likely to take place in rental houses where many tenants are clustered together, increasing the likelihood of noise complaints, trespassing and vandalism;

•compromised neighborhood character, especially in neighborhoods populated by single families and working professionals; and

•safety. Houses are prone to wear and tear that contribute to dangers such as collapse, fire, and the spread of disease based on unsanitary conditions and/or deferred maintenance."

Over-Occupancy Rental Laws for Inspectors - InterNACHI


From an article about trying to enumerate illegal immigrants in Queens, NY...

"And this is where it gets interesting with census issues. The conditions are very overcrowded. There’s a lot of informal and, I would say, for many people, unconventional rooming or shared housing situations."

"Marta Moreira is 25, from Ecuador. She shows me around the cramped apartment where she lives with her husband and daughter and several strangers. It’s little more than four small bedrooms with a bed in the hall."

"The faces change so often that as she points from door to door, she has trouble remembering each of their names."

Census 2010: A Queens Campaign Seeks to Get Everyone Counted, Including Illegals - WNYC


From Chicago... from 1987, but things haven't really changed since then....

"Broches, who police said leased an apartment at 15 Bode Rd. that housed 18 illegal aliens, denied the allegation. ``I don`t know where they lived, but I had no lease on that apartment,`` he said. ``All my employees have Social Security numbers. I did not know they are illegal.`"

"The second raid was at a town house in the 300 block of Cedar Tree Court. Eleven alleged illegal aliens were living there, according to Mauer."

29 Seized As Illegal Aliens In Hoffman Estates Raids - Chicago Tribune


From Pennsylvania, which mentions overcrowding issues...

http://www.fairhousingrights.org/Med...mmigration.pdf


From New Jersey...

"Twenty-three beds in a modest single-family house. Forty people living in a four-family apartment building. Twenty-two people in a house with electrical zip cords running from floor to floor. Six families in two apartments divided up with plywood barriers."

"Overcrowding of housing, commonly known as ‘stacking,’ is detrimental to a community."

"The New York Times article also points to a link between the presence of home overcrowding, and the presence of numbers of illegal immigrants, many of whom work as day laborers. Although by no means all overcrowding is done by illegal immigrants, and conversely, there are illegal immigrants who do not live in overcrowded conditions, the two problems (overcrowding and illegal immigrants) are undeniably interrelated. The New York Times article also notes that local governments are left to deal with the fallout of a lack of coherent federal immigration policy and the enforcement of federal laws. Part of this fall-out is increased stacking."

NJLM - How to Stop Renters from risking their lives


"Federal immigration authorities have raided a house in Farmingville and arrested 15 Latino immigrants..."

15 immigrants arrested in raid


This one from my own home town...

"According to complaints on file with the city, as well as interviews with neighbors, the houses owned by Landegger and others serve as residences for 10 to 50 laborers, mostly Latino men, who work as gardeners, housekeepers, construction workers and other modestly paid positions in the service and agricultural industries."

"city officials suggest their often illegal immigration status prevents them from exposing their living conditions and forcing landlords to comply with the law"

Cynthia Caiazzo | Simi Accused of Ignoring Overcrowding in Rentals : Neighbors Say Houses Are Illegally Packed - Los Angeles Times
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,378,097 times
Reputation: 1575
By the way, HUD declines to break down by city and state just how many ineligable illegal immigrants are actually living in federally funded housing. I imagine it's a lot and they don't want to admit to it.
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,378,097 times
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"A blue house in a colonia near Abram Road and Mile 4 was allegedly housing more than 40 illegal immigrants."

Authorities: 40 Illegal Immigrants Hidden in Stash House - KRGV CHANNEL 5 NEWS - The Rio Grande Valley's News Channel - Breaking News, Breaking Stories - RGV News (http://www.krgv.com/mostpopular/story/Authorities-40-Illegal-Immigrants-Hidden-in-Stash/NOYWxE4AdUK2NcbRgwWr0A.cspx - broken link)


Here's an interesting article on the spate of houses of prostitution being operated out of residential neighborhoods by illegal immigrants, FOR illegal immigrants...

"The Newport News location was in a suburban neighborhood and Mexican men typically went through the neighborhood at all hours, often knocking on neighbors’ doors looking for the brothel."

"The poor people living on Eastwood Drive,” had to live with "strange men knocking on their doors looking for girls."

"All of those involved were illegal aliens from Mexico, El Salvador, and Ecuador."

Another Mexican brothel found in North Carolina - National Immigration Reform | Examiner.com
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:31 PM
 
403 posts, read 281,234 times
Reputation: 60
None of your articles say it is a problem that is unique to illegal aliens? Aside from that your articles don't suggest that all illegals live this way. Would you be willing to grant amnesty to illegals that aren't living 20 to a house?
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:39 PM
 
Location: John & Ken-ville
13,692 posts, read 15,152,308 times
Reputation: 9493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
No, it's a simple analogy. You think illegals are immoral simply for the fact that they are here and that's against the law. If you are consistent in your thinking you would also think fugitive slaves and their enablers were immoral simply because it was against the law at the time or you should think a guy driving wrecklessly to get his wife to the hospital is not moral as well. If your position is based on the rule of law as you claim then you should be comfortable agreeing with this logic. If you aren't I'd suggest that you don't actually value the rule of law. Your desire to keep illegal immigrants out of our country must be based on something else.
If you're referring to my post:

I don't pass judgment on someone's morality. I don't give a rip if someone is moral or not. Nowhere in my post did I mention morality.

My views are based on the laws of the United States with regard to immigration which have not been enforced.

PERIOD. There is never a reason to spin or insinuate anything from what I posted I always say what I mean.
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:43 PM
 
Location: colorado
2,788 posts, read 4,250,021 times
Reputation: 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
Notice how they show love and respect for our country. If anything they should be desecrating the flag of Mexico!


YouTube - ‪Police Watch as SB1070 Illegal alien supporters desecrate US Flag during National Anthem‬‏

Hmm..I dont say the pledge of allegiance..or sing the national anthem..or salute the flag? I was born in this country..but I wont disrespect the flag..
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