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Old 06-27-2011, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,378,097 times
Reputation: 1575

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
Because shooting people who are just trying to make a better life for themselves is a horrible thing.
An armed robber breaking into someone's house and taking their money is also just "trying to make a better life" for themselves. Would it be a horrible thing for the home owner/tenant to shoot them to PROTECT what is rightfully theirs?
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:27 PM
 
403 posts, read 281,234 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
An armed robber breaking into someone's house and taking their money is also just "trying to make a better life" for themselves. Would it be a horrible thing for the home owner/tenant to shoot them to PROTECT what is rightfully theirs?
So, in your opinion, illegal aliens are the equivalent of armed robbers and deserve to be shot?
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:27 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,007,032 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
An armed robber breaking into someone's house and taking their money is also just "trying to make a better life" for themselves. Would it be a horrible thing for the home owner/tenant to shoot them to PROTECT what is rightfully theirs?
(well maybe, but I'm a law student so you can ignore this)

Both sides of this are skipping around the issue of whether the presence of illegals actually hurts anyone. Everything else, no matter which way you're arguing, is tangential.
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:33 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,007,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
So, in your opinion, illegal aliens are the equivalent of armed robbers and deserve to be shot?
I think it's a fundamentally valid point that trying to make a better life for yourself isn't inherently honorable or defensible.
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:36 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,840,989 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
So, in your opinion, illegal aliens are the equivalent of armed robbers and deserve to be shot?
Kinky Friedman had a good suggestion. He wanted to offer a sizeable cash amount to the Mexican army guys to guard the border. For every illegal they let through, the amount would go down a couple thousand dollars.

We could try something like that and see if their own government and army would think they're worth shooting.
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:39 PM
 
403 posts, read 281,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
I think it's a fundamentally valid point that trying to make a better life for yourself isn't inherently honorable or defensible.
I agree.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:23 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,840,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
I agree.
Trying to have a better life can be different things. Sure for the illegals it means breaking any law they find inconvenient to flee their own country and have their children here where they are given free health care and food stamps.

Or trying to have a better life can mean staying in school in their own country, deciding not to start reproduction at age 14 or 15, deciding to have only the number of children they can support - and raising those children to stay in school. Having a better life can mean building your country, working for needed social change, working to have an economy.

Illegals simply are not better than the people of their country who are working hard in their country and are truly patriotic to their country.

Sure it's easier to abandon ship and demand their "rights" and quick citizenship in the USA along with everything else they can easily demand here - it's a quick fix but does nothing for those left behind. It's a form of greed - the illegal is on the take and doesn't give a damn what becomes of his country or the people still there.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,236,627 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
(well maybe, but I'm a law student so you can ignore this)

Both sides of this are skipping around the issue of whether the presence of illegals actually hurts anyone.
Everything else, no matter which way you're arguing, is tangential.
No, your the one skipping the issue, which is NOT whether they're illegal presents hurt anyone, If it didn't, there wouldn't be an issue.
The issue is whether illegals should keep breaking the Laws and getting away with it.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:44 PM
 
403 posts, read 281,234 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post

Illegals simply are not better than the people of their country who are working hard in their country and are truly patriotic to their country.

Sure it's easier to abandon ship and demand their "rights" and quick citizenship in the USA along with everything else they can easily demand here - it's a quick fix but does nothing for those left behind. It's a form of greed - the illegal is on the take and doesn't give a damn what becomes of his country or the people still there.
You know what else is? Advocating the preservation of arbitrary barriers to entry into the country for the sole purpose of wage inflation and job security because you and/or your friends can't hack it when they have to compete against people who are truly hungry to take advantage of the opportunities this country has to offer. So you dehumanize illegal immigrants by making broad generalizations based off dubious anecdotes and biased studies because you are greedy and you allow yourself to be ruled by base tribalistic impulses. You wave your arms argue in half truths and try to bully opponents by calling to question their patriotism for simply disagreeing with you. It's all a distraction in a vain attempt to hide the painfully obvious fact that your position isn't morally superior, it's morally repugnant.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:06 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,176 posts, read 870,451 times
Reputation: 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
An armed robber breaking into someone's house and taking their money is also just "trying to make a better life" for themselves. Would it be a horrible thing for the home owner/tenant to shoot them to PROTECT what is rightfully theirs?
Thank You.
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