U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-23-2011, 11:17 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
These people are learning English though. Just not as fast as you would like. It's typical for all large masses of immigrants to undergo this effect in language attainment. The the first generation makes some progress in language assimilation but remains dominant in their native tongue , the second generation is bilingual, and the third-generation only speaks English. It's called the three-generation model.
Wikipedia?

I call bullsh*t.

I'm a second generation American. My father was first generation. His parents immigrated.

My father learned only English and never learned my grandparent's native tongue, because they determined to only speak the language of their adopted country. It's a matter of desire to learn and to assimilate.

I've had enough Linguistic Anth classes and personal experience to know that Wiki article is full of it.

And now, I'm done playing in the sandbox with the kiddies. I have a real, grown-up job to go to in the morning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-23-2011, 11:18 PM
 
46 posts, read 19,027 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
What? Please explain how one gains citizenship, yet not “be” a citizen?
One can be a citizen and not speak English, it makes the idea that demanding that citizens learn English as requirement a weak to mute point, if citizens themselves don't have to speak English.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2011, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
...You'll find that a lack of common culture and common language had a great deal to do with the collapse of those civilizations which crumbled from the inside...
But a common culture and common language will not on their own hold a country together...

An illegal alien generalist sees a particular ethnicity, and calls them an illegal alien...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2011, 11:20 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,596 times
Reputation: 89
Perhaps you can explain how my great grandparents spoke Norwegian almost exclusively, my grandparents were able to speak Norwegian and English and my father can't understand a lick of it? I know a lot of Swedish/Norwegian/German types in my area that went through this same exact effect. I suppose those were different times tho right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2011, 11:25 PM
 
46 posts, read 19,027 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
No. Lack of a common language and common culture has brought more than one civilization to its knees though.

God, have you people never picked up a history book or taken a Western Civilization class?

The ignorance of the past is stunning. The U.S. educational system is one BIG FAIL.

Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
Well this is true of many nation states where a dominate narrative of history and culture ( usually nationalistic) is superimposed on the various sub -cultures. Modernism seeked to open this narrative to marginalized minorities in order open space in the "common culture". Of course this wasn't always true. Many great empires tolerated multiple languages and multiple cultures far greater than the nation state and survived hundreds of years. As well, nation states have an ability to metaphorize different cultures and imprint them with the dominate culture while allowing them to retain their distintiveness and the same with languages. Micheal Walzer's essay On Toleration is a good read in regards to this. You can stop being pretentious.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2011, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
...God, have you people never picked up a history book or taken a Western Civilization class?

The ignorance of the past is stunning. The U.S. educational system is one BIG FAIL.

Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
But "chicagonut" tells us those people are dead, so it really doesn't matter what they did...

The U.S. educational system was a BIG FAIL when it revised history in its text books. A school system that within memory thought little Black boys and girls should be taught separately from little White boys and girls. I really hope we are learning something from our own past.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-23-2011, 11:49 PM
pvn
 
103 posts, read 42,885 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
I've known Benicar for years. At no point has she ever said "no legal immigration."

You're purposely being obtuse and recondite because YOU refuse to acknowledge that there is a vast difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration.

Your deliberate churlishness makes it impossible to take you the least bit seriously.

I have to work tomorrow. I have no inclination to play games with children, especially when I could be sleeping instead.

Adios and goodnight.
It's called sarcasm; it's a rhetorical device. Of course Benicar hasn't said "no legal immigration." That's PRECISELY THE POINT - if she were logically consistent in her arguments, she would, because the argument she presents against illegals also applies to legal immigrants. Their legal/illegal status is independent of this argument.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2011, 12:21 AM
 
951 posts, read 616,596 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Wikipedia?

I call bullsh*t.

I'm a second generation American. My father was first generation. His parents immigrated.

My father learned only English and never learned my grandparent's native tongue, because they determined to only speak the language of their adopted country. It's a matter of desire to learn and to assimilate.

I've had enough Linguistic Anth classes and personal experience to know that Wiki article is full of it.

And now, I'm done playing in the sandbox with the kiddies. I have a real, grown-up job to go to in the morning.
Here's a PEW article and if you still want to claim b.s. I can post up a bunch of information from .edu sites referring to the same effects. Maybe you should talk to your teachers.

English Usage among Hispanics in the United States - Pew Research Center

1st Generation:

Quote:
The surveys show that fewer than one-in-four (23%) Latino immigrants report being able to speak English very well.
2nd Generation:

Quote:
fully 88% of their U.S.-born adult children report that they speak English very well.
3rd Generation and on:

Quote:
Among later generations of Hispanic adults, the figure rises to 94%.
Also from article:

Quote:
As fluency in English increases across generations, so, too, does the regular use of English by Hispanics, both at home and at work. For most immigrants, English is not the primary language they use in either setting. But for their grown children, it is.

Last edited by huddledmasses; 06-24-2011 at 12:40 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2011, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,236 posts, read 13,523,621 times
Reputation: 25856
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
You people...
Americans dont like to travel. So yes this illegal is only doing a job no americans are willing to do. jeez you guys have to nit pick every single illegal.

I do NOT think there is a shortage of people wanting to be flight attendants. Granted, it doesn't have the "glamorous" image that it used to have, and it doesn't even pay as well as it did decades ago. But it's still a profession with good benefits.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2011, 07:44 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Wikipedia?

I call bullsh*t.

I'm a second generation American. My father was first generation. His parents immigrated.

My father learned only English and never learned my grandparent's native tongue, because they determined to only speak the language of their adopted country. It's a matter of desire to learn and to assimilate.

I've had enough Linguistic Anth classes and personal experience to know that Wiki article is full of it.

And now, I'm done playing in the sandbox with the kiddies. I have a real, grown-up job to go to in the morning.
Notice how the person you are responding to used the word "immigrants"? They just can't seem to spit out the words illegal aliens. My grandparents were the same. They came from Poland and they made sure all their kids learned and only spoke English.

I am also done playing in the sandbox with this new "tag team" as Eleanor so amply called them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top