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Old 06-24-2011, 07:50 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
But a common culture and common language will not on their own hold a country together...

An illegal alien generalist sees a particular ethnicity, and calls them an illegal alien...
That's bull and you know it. There may be a small minority of Americans that looks at Hispanic looking people and immediately thinks "illegal" but most of us do not. What do we have to do to get you off the victim mentality band wagon? Is there any hope at all?

A common culture and language are very important to a cohesive society. I would say they are the two biggest factors.
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Old 06-24-2011, 07:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
But "chicagonut" tells us those people are dead, so it really doesn't matter what they did...

The U.S. educational system was a BIG FAIL when it revised history in its text books. A school system that within memory thought little Black boys and girls should be taught separately from little White boys and girls. I really hope we are learning something from our own past.
The past doesn't matter as to what our immigration laws were or were not back then. In otherwords it matters not what those dead people did in setting laws and policies because it is irrelevant to today including any discrimination that happened back then. Don't take my words out of context and spin them somewhere else.

You can't be serious that we didn't learn anything about the segragation of the past since we no longer do those things, can you? Isn't stopping such policies, learning something? What does the segragation in schools in the past have to do with illegal immigration today anyway?
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You can't be serious that we didn't learn anything about the segragation of the past since we no longer do those things, can you? Isn't stopping such policies, learning something? What does the segragation in schools in the past have to do with illegal immigration today anyway?
Not sure. But illegals and pro-illegals love to bring up MLK and compare their experiences.
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Wikipedia?

I call bullsh*t.

I'm a second generation American. My father was first generation. His parents immigrated.

My father learned only English and never learned my grandparent's native tongue, because they determined to only speak the language of their adopted country. It's a matter of desire to learn and to assimilate.

I've had enough Linguistic Anth classes and personal experience to know that Wiki article is full of it.

And now, I'm done playing in the sandbox with the kiddies. I have a real, grown-up job to go to in the morning.
Kele, I would like to add this to your remarks also.

First of all, what was the total number of Norwegian immigrants in comparison to today's immigration (both legal and illegal) from South of the border? The number absolutely dwarfs that of the immigration from Mexico and other Latino countries.

One of the common sense reasons for immigration laws is to attempt to limit immigration to a number of people which will not overwhelm our institutions (hospitals, schools, etc.) and infrastructure. It is also to facilitate assimilation/integration of those new immigrants.

Massive illegal immigration throws this balance completely off. It is possible for many of these newcomers to go through their entire lives and never learn to speak one word of English. This is evidenced by the many people we see who have been here for years and cannot communicate in English and still need a taxpayer-funded interpreter and all forms printed in their native language!

The children mostly do learn to speak English--again at taxpayer's expense in bilingual schools. This kind of pandering was not done for the past "immigrants" or any other immigrants who came 100+ years ago. There was no "press one to speak" whatever foreign language. There were no government forms printed in their native languages at taxpayer expense. Newcomers to this nation were expected to learn English; English speakers were not expected to learn immigrants' native language in order to make life easier for them! Americans in general did not have to learn the language of the immigrants in order to secure jobs in their own nation; the immigrants were expected to learn English.

So, yes, I would argue that these are different times and another reason to drop the comparison to immigration waves of the past.
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:24 AM
 
951 posts, read 616,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Kele, I would like to add this to your remarks also.

First of all, what was the total number of Norwegian immigrants in comparison to today's immigration (both legal and illegal) from South of the border? The number absolutely dwarfs that of the immigration from Mexico and other Latino countries.

One of the common sense reasons for immigration laws is to attempt to limit immigration to a number of people which will not overwhelm our institutions (hospitals, schools, etc.) and infrastructure. It is also to facilitate assimilation/integration of those new immigrants.

Massive illegal immigration throws this balance completely off. It is possible for many of these newcomers to go through their entire lives and never learn to speak one word of English. This is evidenced by the many people we see who have been here for years and cannot communicate in English and still need a taxpayer-funded interpreter and all forms printed in their native language!

The children mostly do learn to speak English--again at taxpayer's expense in bilingual schools. This kind of pandering was not done for the past "immigrants" or any other immigrants who came 100+ years ago. There was no "press one to speak" whatever foreign language. There were no government forms printed in their native languages at taxpayer expense. Newcomers to this nation were expected to learn English; English speakers were not expected to learn immigrants' native language in order to make life easier for them! Americans in general did not have to learn the language of the immigrants in order to secure jobs in their own nation; the immigrants were expected to learn English.

So, yes, I would argue that these are different times and another reason to drop the comparison to immigration waves of the past.

Wrong. See my previous post with the PEW link. This is the same basic assimilation we see with all mass immigrations. Most of the first generation only learns enough to be able to get by. The second generation is mostly bi-lingual and the 3rd usually knows the native language fully while starting to lose their home language.

I will note, Hispanics are remaining bi-lingual longer than most other mass immigrations of people because of the continued mass of immigrants coming over making Spanish a bit more necessary but that doesn't change the basic way they assimilate to the English language.

It's also dishonest to say you are paying for the schooling and blame it on the illegals when that kid is a U.S. citizen that will one day pay for his schooling and more in taxes than school ever cost. Not only that, he will probably do other things that further benefit our society.
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Wrong. See my previous post with the PEW link. This is the same basic assimilation we see with all mass immigrations. Most of the first generation only learns enough to be able to get by. The second generation is mostly bi-lingual and the 3rd usually knows the native language fully while starting to lose their home language.

I will note, Hispanics are remaining bi-lingual longer than most other mass immigrations of people because of the continued mass of immigrants coming over making Spanish a bit more necessary but that doesn't change the basic way they assimilate to the English language.

It's also dishonest to say you are paying for the schooling and blame it on the illegals when that kid is a U.S. citizen that will one day pay for his schooling and more in taxes than school ever cost. Not only that, he will probably do other things that further benefit our society.
Wrong. This is not the same assimilation. Latinos do not integrate as well as white, black and Asian immigrants.

Latinos not integrating as well as some immigrants: study | Reuters
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Cindy_Jole View Post
Wrong. This is not the same assimilation. Latinos do not integrate as well as white, black and Asian immigrants.

Latinos not integrating as well as some immigrants: study | Reuters
Did you read that article past the headline:

Quote:
But as a whole, the report says fears are unfounded that the nation's estimated 38 million immigrants, legal and illegal, are not being integrated into American life.

It shows that immigrants are integrating "reasonably well" when evaluating language proficiency, socioeconomic attainment, political participation, where they live and social interaction with host communities.


In fact, the report says there is evidence that today's immigrants are learning English faster than the last wave of people entering the U.S. at the start of the 20th century.
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:56 AM
 
2,113 posts, read 2,242,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie47 View Post
Did you read that article past the headline:
Of course. "As a whole" immigrants are integrating well. That's what happens when you look at the entire group, so the well-integrated immigrants bring up the poorly-integrated immigrants and illegals.

Did you read the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th sentences?
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:58 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy_Jole View Post
Of course. "As a whole" immigrants are integrating well. That's what happens when you look at the entire group, so the well-integrated immigrants bring up the poorly-integrated immigrants and illegals.
lol, so you cite a study, implying that these immigrants are not assimilating as well as past immigrants. Someone points out that's not what the study says, and you then claim "well sure, the ones that are integrating well must be pulling up the average." OF COURSE THEY ARE. That's what happens when you compile data and try to identify trends.
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:06 AM
 
2,113 posts, read 2,242,553 times
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Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
lol, so you cite a study, implying that these immigrants are not assimilating as well as past immigrants. Someone points out that's not what the study says, and you then claim "well sure, the ones that are integrating well must be pulling up the average." OF COURSE THEY ARE. That's what happens when you compile data and try to identify trends.
I didn't say these immigrants are not assimilating as well as past immigrants. I said Latino immigrants do not assimilate as well as Asian, black and non-Hispanic white immigrants - which is straight from the article.
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