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Old 06-23-2011, 08:48 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No, the main reason they shouldn't be here is becasue it is against the law.
Argument winner!

We're arguing primarily about WHETHER OR NOT IT SHOULD BE AGAINST THE LAW.

It should phase you at some point that your go-to argument in this debate is that it's against the law. Do you use this in other debates? "Why should marijuana be illegal?" "Because it's illegal!" "Why should prostitution be illegal?" "Because it's illegal!"
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:49 AM
pvn
 
103 posts, read 42,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
so if a bank robber bought a car with stolen money it would make sense to let him keep the car?
what if a squatter took up residence in your garage? he's tthere already let him assume ownership of your garage?
wow, people are crying about the jaywalking analogy being bad, but this analogy is at least 2000x worse.

Illegal immigration isn't a crime with a distinct victim like bank robbery or squatting.

A better analogy would be "so if there was a law that said tinman01 was legally barred from buying a car, should we just keep that law on the books forever because ITS THE LAW or should we think about whether that law makes sense or not?
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:49 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn View Post
why should it be against the law? We all know what the law currently says. But hypothetically, if we were starting all over, and you got to make the laws, would you make them exactly like they are now?

What rules would you make, and more importantly, why?
Uh, why is anything against the law? It is to protect Americans, that's way.

Our quotas for legal immigration are already based on criteria such as job availabiltiy, resources and population growth. Why would I want to change a common sense approach such as that one?
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:51 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn View Post
wow, people are crying about the jaywalking analogy being bad, but this analogy is at least 2000x worse.

Illegal immigration isn't a crime with a distinct victim like bank robbery or squatting.

A better analogy would be "so if there was a law that said tinman01 was legally barred from buying a car, should we just keep that law on the books forever because ITS THE LAW or should we think about whether that law makes sense or not?
So our immigration laws make no sense? Is that true for all countries or just this one?
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:51 AM
pvn
 
103 posts, read 42,902 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
So it doesn't matter to you that they are working these jobs without authorization and in most cases using fake and stolen I.D.'s or not paying any income taxes by working under the table?
why would that bother me?

Are you having trouble sleeping because of the possibility that the cashier at the grocery store told his boss his name "joe" but it's really "sam"???

PS: they do pay income taxes (along with all the other taxes) and they get LESS back in services etc.
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:52 AM
pvn
 
103 posts, read 42,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Uh, why is anything against the law? It is to protect Americans, that's way.
go on...

how do these laws "protect americans"?
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:53 AM
pvn
 
103 posts, read 42,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
and what do we tell all the folks who did it the right way?
Sorry sucker you should have cheated?
So someone did something hard, ergo nobody should ever make it easier to do in the future?
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:53 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Argument winner!

We're arguing primarily about WHETHER OR NOT IT SHOULD BE AGAINST THE LAW.

It should phase you at some point that your go-to argument in this debate is that it's against the law. Do you use this in other debates? "Why should marijuana be illegal?" "Because it's illegal!" "Why should prostitution be illegal?" "Because it's illegal!"

So then you are of the belief that laws aren't in place for the protection and well being of the general public? They just make them for no reason at all? Everyone should be able to do what they damn well please regardless of how it will impact others? Surely, you jest.
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:54 AM
pvn
 
103 posts, read 42,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No, not at all. I think all laws should be enforced but your analogy in regards to illegal aliens was a bad one. I am no sir, either. I'm a female.
why is it bad? What aspects specifically are bad? The argument I've heard never gets more fleshed out than "they broke the law" or "we're a nation of laws". Jaywalking is against the law, why don't those same platitudes apply? I mean, I'm open to hearing more here, just explain it to me.
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:56 AM
 
192 posts, read 91,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
So it doesn't matter to you that they are working these jobs without authorization and in most cases using fake and stolen I.D.'s or not paying any income taxes by working under the table? Americans aren't willing to do those jobs and in turn pay income taxes and make the lives of the rest of us Americans better? There is nothing in it for the USA if Americans are working those same jobs? Please don't bring up yet again the supposed cheap prices we are getting due to illegal alien labor either as that has been debunked over and over when you consider their social costs we are paying and that it puts Americans out of work and therefore they have no buying power to buy these so-called "cheap" goods.
Please stop repeating that most illegal immigrants don't pay income taxes. We've already established that is false. And no, you've not provided any reputable citation or argument that cheap labor does not drive down prices. It's the most rudimentary principle of economics that it does. The vast majority of Americans do in fact have jobs, so yes, they have the buying power to get these cheap goods.
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