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Old 06-23-2011, 10:40 PM
 
46 posts, read 19,079 times
Reputation: 17

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
I honestly wonder in a very Italian school district Spanish is being taught to our kids. I am not the only parent who feels this way. Learning a foreign language is wonderful. If more illegals agreed I might find them less irritating.

And why again should my daughter be literally forced to learn some Spanish to graduate from elementary school?
You have been told a few times that you should investigate this and ask the school board instead of blaming it on the Latino Lobby Cabal. I had to take 2 years of Spanish myself because I didn't have an option of another language, but I didn't think sinister forces were behind it. I went to a poor high school.

Quote:
And here with go with the excuses. If Americans don't want to learn Spanish hey they're lazy racists. If illegals don't want to learn english well there are a lot of Spanish speakers here so why should they have to bother?
No. I was pointing out various reasons why a school district might choose Spanish over say Tagalog or Quecha.

As for people refusing to learn English

http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=817

 
Old 06-23-2011, 10:44 PM
pvn
 
103 posts, read 43,025 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
Do NOTHING? Nope. Do SOMETHING like chase off the illegals.
Feel free to decline to do business with them. I am fine with you chasing them off your own property.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 10:50 PM
 
46 posts, read 19,079 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Explain to me why we need Hispanic high school drop outs who don't speak English.

Please. You're the one advocating for a change in policy. Explain why.
Well a pulitzer prize winner would seem like a good candidate to have around. Would this be a good person to say "we need"?
 
Old 06-23-2011, 11:00 PM
pvn
 
103 posts, read 43,025 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Explain to me why we need Hispanic high school drop outs who don't speak English.
Maybe you don't. But some other people seem to. They're getting jobs, after all, so they must be doing something other people find valuable.

Quote:
Please. You're the one advocating for a change in policy. Explain why.
Because the status quo is unjust.

Quote:
Why should I do nothing to stop people who raise my taxes, put me at risk when they drive without licenses or insurance, overcrowd our school and scoff at English?
There's all sorts of "real" americans who drive without insurance and suck up your tax dollars.

As for english, I'm not sure why everyone takes this so personally. There are some people out there that like different TV shows than you do. There are people ou there that like different music than you do. They probably scoff at your political preferences. etc.

Quote:
You seem to be making the argument that only some people -- those sainted illegals -- are allowed to serve their economic interests. Why are American natives not allowed the same privilege?

what? Please elaborate on this point.

Quote:
Why should be easy for a foreign national to come here if they impose costs on Americans?
I don't think it should be easy necessarily. I just don't think it should be artificially difficult. I'm not saying to give them advantages.

Quote:
Go look up dozens of polls on this issue. Very few issues unite Americans on both sides of the political spectrum as much as this one. We've made up our minds. Why should our views get overruled by foreign nationals. Are there any other laws American laws that should get shoved aside because people overseas don't like them? Shall we adopt Sharia law to please the Taliban?
strawman alert here.

* I am not arguing that freedom is particularly popular now.
* I don't think your views should be overriden by anyone (I don't think your views should override anyone else either)
* I don't care about sharia law but if two people want to use it to settle their own beefs that's their business.


Quote:
That is very much the implication of your position on this issue.
How so? (this is sort of a trick question, I know where you're going with this and I'll just go ahead and tell you you're making some incorrect assumptions about my position)
 
Old 06-23-2011, 11:28 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,392,785 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn View Post
Maybe you don't. But some other people seem to. They're getting jobs, after all, so they must be doing something other people find valuable.
Some employers prefer docile low skilled workers to Americans who expect a decent wage for a decent day's work. Why should we humor them? I'm sure some people would like to bring back slavery. Again why should we humor them? Especially at the expense of our own needs?

Quote:
Because the status quo is unjust.
How? Why should Americans welcome low skilled foreign nationals in the middle of a recession? To make you feel better?

Quote:
There's all sorts of "real" americans who drive without insurance and suck up your tax dollars.
Why do we need to import more such people?

Quote:
As for english, I'm not sure why everyone takes this so personally. There are some people out there that like different TV shows than you do. There are people ou there that like different music than you do. They probably scoff at your political preferences. etc.
I get irked when I have to pay for it with increased tax dollars for interpreters and other costs. I'm not so sure why some people feel the need to move here and not learn English. I don't respect them because they are rude.


Quote:
what? Please elaborate on this point.
Hispanic high school drop outs do not benefit me or most Americans. Why aren't we allowed to demand they leave because we don't want to finance the costs of their decision to immigrate here?

Quote:
I don't think it should be easy necessarily. I just don't think it should be artificially difficult. I'm not saying to give them advantages.
Why shouldn't it be difficult to move someplace where you don't speak the language and are likely to be a tax burden on natives?


Quote:
strawman alert here.

* I am not arguing that freedom is particularly popular now.
* I don't think your views should be overriden by anyone (I don't think your views should override anyone else either)
* I don't care about sharia law but if two people want to use it to settle their own beefs that's their business.
The only strawman is your own. You have not made a compelling case on this issue at all other than to illustrate your need to learn more about it.

Quote:
How so? (this is sort of a trick question, I know where you're going with this and I'll just go ahead and tell you you're making some incorrect assumptions about my position)
I don't think you know where you're going with anything you've posted here on this topic.
 
Old 06-24-2011, 12:28 AM
pvn
 
103 posts, read 43,025 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Some employers prefer docile low skilled workers to Americans who expect a decent wage for a decent day's work. Why should we humor them? I'm sure some people would like to bring back slavery. Again why should we humor them? Especially at the expense of our own needs?
Don't "humor them" if you don't want to. Just leave them alone.

Why should I "humor you" if you prefer to read a book I don't think you should read or eat strawberry ice cream when I prefer chocolate?

Quote:
How? Why should Americans welcome low skilled foreign nationals in the middle of a recession? To make you feel better?
I'm not asking you to welcome them.

Quote:
Why do we need to import more such people?
I'm not asking you to import them.

Quote:
I get irked when I have to pay for it with increased tax dollars for interpreters and other costs. I'm not so sure why some people feel the need to move here and not learn English. I don't respect them because they are rude.
Could you itemize your tax dollars that go towards interpreters? I'm sure if you do the math you'll find it's a negligible item. But in any case, I'm with you, I don't support taxpayer funded interpreters. Cool?

Quote:
Hispanic high school drop outs do not benefit me or most Americans. Why aren't we allowed to demand they leave because we don't want to finance the costs of their decision to immigrate here?
You apparently ARE allowed to demand that they leave. I get told over and over again that A) my reading comprehension is bad and B) it's currently ILLEGAL for these people to be here.

In any case, I have no problem with you demanding they leave... YOUR property. Do you think I should be allowed to determine who visits you on YOUR property? Because that's basically what you're telling me, that you want veto power over who I allow onto my property.

Quote:
Why shouldn't it be difficult to move someplace where you don't speak the language and are likely to be a tax burden on natives?
It sounds pretty difficult. I'm not sure why that means you should be able to impose additional obstacles.

As for your tax burden, that's a problem with your social policy. If you want to stop handing tax dollars to people then by all means stop doing it.

Quote:
The only strawman is your own. You have not made a compelling case on this issue at all other than to illustrate your need to learn more about it.
I don't think you know what the word strawman means. Even if you were correct about my ignorance of this issue, that wouldn't constitute a strawman.

Quote:
I don't think you know where you're going with anything you've posted here on this topic.
Cool story. Just answer the question then.
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