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Old 06-22-2011, 06:48 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,008,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
A spurious argument. Because you, an American citizen, have a legal right to be here.

Further, if you look at this from a macro standpoint, the argument becomes even more compelling. Because, as I said earlier, the more laborers there are to fill a limited number of jobs, it is almost certain there will be downward price pressure.

Estimates vary, but a lot of estimates seem to peg illegals in the United States at 12 million. Let's assume that 10 million of them work. Meanwhile, the number of unemployed American citizens is around 14 million.

A small percentage of illegals are doing farm work. It's more likely that they'll be working in factories and on construction sites, which used to be the mainstay of prosperous blue-collar families.
That's not a spurious argument unless you are assuming your conclusion, which is that these immigrants should not be allowed to compete.

You are also operating on the assumption that the number of jobs available is stagnant. It is not.

 
Old 06-22-2011, 06:49 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,189,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
It's true. When there is one person who offers to do a job, and then another offers to do it less, or do it better, the latter person will almost always get the job.

Now you believe this is hurting the economy, correct?
No, they won't if they are an honest, law abiding American employer. Yes, it is hurting our economy because he employers just pocket the extra profit from illegal labor while passing their huge social costs on to us. How is it helping our economy to have millions of unemployed American workers?
 
Old 06-22-2011, 06:49 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,008,721 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
My point is that there is a clear barrier to entry for becoming a lawyer. No such barrier to entry exists on a factory floor or to drive a Bobcat around a construction site.

So the lawyer, trusting in his own job security, can make his pronouncements on the subject all day, knowing that he can't be touched.
There are barriers of entry to every job. Easier jobs are easier to compete for. The fact that a factory worker may be outcompeted by someone who walks in offering to do a better job or work for less is a fact of everyday life.
 
Old 06-22-2011, 06:50 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,387,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
That's not a spurious argument unless you are assuming your conclusion, which is that these immigrants should not be allowed to compete.

You are also operating on the assumption that the number of jobs available is stagnant. It is not.
I didn't say stagnant. I said finite. Big difference. And if you have 14 million unemployed Americans and 10 million employed illegal aliens, the choices should be obvious.
 
Old 06-22-2011, 06:52 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,189,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
That's not a spurious argument unless you are assuming your conclusion, which is that these immigrants should not be allowed to compete.

You are also operating on the assumption that the number of jobs available is stagnant. It is not.
They aren't immigrants, they are illegal aliens and no they are not allowed by law to compete for American jobs. It the number of jobs aren't stagnant then why do we have millions of Americans out of work? Why are you on the side of lawbreaking employers and illegal aliens rather than American workers? Are you an American?
 
Old 06-22-2011, 06:52 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,387,398 times
Reputation: 45836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
There are barriers of entry to every job. Easier jobs are easier to compete for. The fact that a factory worker may be outcompeted by someone who walks in offering to do a better job or work for less is a fact of everyday life.
However, when that person is here illegally from Tegucigalpa, then it is an injustice. I'm just not sure how you can avoid realizing that a labor surplus caused by illegal immigration means the lowering of wages.
 
Old 06-22-2011, 06:53 PM
 
192 posts, read 91,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I didn't say stagnant. I said finite. Big difference. And if you have 14 million unemployed Americans and 10 million employed illegal aliens, the choices should be obvious.
Jobs aren't finite.
 
Old 06-22-2011, 06:54 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,008,721 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No, they won't if they are an honest, law abiding American employer. Yes, it is hurting our economy because he employers just pocket the extra profit from illegal labor while passing their huge social costs on to us. How is it helping our economy to have millions of unemployed American workers?
...it is not.

Whatever huge social costs you believe there may be would not be present if they were legalized. Of course, the numbers used around here are inaccurate enough that you might perceive it differently.

But, as always, your argument relies regardless on not caring about the welfare of the immigrant at all. If there are two identical potential employees offering the same wage and willing to do the same work, it does not matter whom the employer chooses. I assume you can see that.
 
Old 06-22-2011, 06:54 PM
 
951 posts, read 618,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
They aren't immigrants, they are illegal aliens and no they are not allowed by law to compete for American jobs. It the number of jobs aren't stagnant then why do we have millions of Americans out of work? Why are you on the side of lawbreaking employers and illegal aliens rather than American workers? Are you an American?

Is this a bot spitting out the same replies in every thread?
 
Old 06-22-2011, 06:54 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,189,169 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
There are barriers of entry to every job. Easier jobs are easier to compete for. The fact that a factory worker may be outcompeted by someone who walks in offering to do a better job or work for less is a fact of everyday life.
An honest employer will pay the going rate for a job regardless of who walks in. You can't be serious defending an employer breaking the law to hire cheap, illegal labor while showing a fellow American the door, can you?
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