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Old 06-23-2011, 07:36 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
Reputation: 111

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
There book smart, NOT street smart.
Street smarts: solving public policy problems since 1776! Amirite?!

 
Old 06-23-2011, 07:54 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
There are many viable statistics that illegal aliens are a net drain on our taxes and economy. If Americans were holding the jobs that these illegals are in this country they would be paid a higher wage and they in turn would actually be paying more income taxes than an illegal would. They would also have even more buying power than an illegal has. They are less likely to have several dependants also. They would be more likely to have health insurance so they wouldn't be using our ER's as a clinic and passing those costs on to us. They would be less likely to give birth on our dime and tapping into our welfare to support these kids. They wouldn't be sending billions of dollars out of our country supporting relatives as the illegals are. There would be less crime to deal with if they weren't here. Less crowding of our schools, jails and hospitals.

As for not being able to get these people out of our country that is a bogus argument. As has been stated in here repeatedly, removing all the incentives to remain here or contiinue to come here such as health, education, welfare, jobs and birthright citizenship would cause most of them to self-deport. Continuing with internal enforcement such as the recent AZ, Georgia, Alabama laws is another thing that will encourage self-deportation. We need to secure our borders in any way possible.

Granting another failed amnesty such as in 1986 would be a disaster to our country. We don't need this population growth from low waged, uneducated, poverty stricken illegals added permanantly to our society. We need to free up those jobs for Americans and never again reward lawbreakers with legalization in our country and least of all our precious citizenship. In summary, we need to return to the rule of law as that is all the argument one needs to oppose illegal immigration anyway.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 08:13 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
There are many viable statistics that illegal aliens are a net drain on our taxes and economy.
Keep saying it and eventually it will be true!

As has been said, most illegal immigrants are not making enough to pay federal income taxes (though some do pay them through faked SS numbers etc.) Almost every other tax is unavoidable. They obviously pay sales taxes, any renter is paying property taxes indirectly, and so forth. Of course, as has been said over and over and over, there are two solutions to illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes. You can A. deport them! or B. give them legal status so that they are then on the government radar.

I like that this thread is all about how fancy schmancy academic types are not in a position to judge this issue, and then every post therein has demonstrated the total lack of ability on the part of many posters to understand economics in the slightest. But no, I'm sure that being able to spot faulty research methods or interpret data is a totally useless skill in this debate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
If Americans were holding the jobs that these illegals are in this country they would be paid a higher wage and they in turn would actually be paying more income taxes than an illegal would.
If you gave everyone in the country a raise they'd all be paying more taxes! OMG deficit solved, right? McDonald's workers are making so little, what a drain on the economy! Double their wages so they're paying more taxes. You are an economics wizard. You need to get this peer reviewed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
They would also have even more buying power than an illegal has. They are less likely to have several dependants also.
Raises for everyone to increase buying power!

Here's a tiny hypothetical for you: I want to hire someone to cut my grass. I have $20, $10 of which I'm willing to spend. You offer to do it for $11. I say no. Another hardworking American offers $10, and an illegal immigrant offers $8. I pay the immigrant. Now I have $12 and he has $8. Was there a change in "buying power" right there?
 
Old 06-23-2011, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,237,724 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Street smarts: solving public policy problems since 1776! Amirite?!
The college people aint doing a real good job cause the USA is in deep trouble with debt, etc. They need to man up and get real.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 08:17 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
The college people aint doing a real good job cause the USA is in deep trouble with debt, etc. They need to man up and get real.
So I guess if the most educated group we have is making mistakes, what we need is LESS educated people! And then if they fail we can just let babies run the economy.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 08:56 AM
 
82 posts, read 73,572 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoltronRoad View Post
More like your quick peek at cherry picked studies listed at the CIS. No political agenda involved there at all.
I'd be happy to read anything that you provide a link to written by 'economists who have progressed beyond Economics 101'.

As usual, one person's 'cherry picked study' is another's gospel. In general, none of this is based on logic, but an emotional core that is converted into madly googling for proof of one's viewpoint.

The funny thing is that a source referenced by a known anti-immigration group, let's say VDARE, is now suspect regardless of the quality of the work. There is no unbiased research, if it agrees with you, it's unbiased. Where the whole thing gets amusing is when outrageously biased groups, the all-about-money SPLC for example, actually has it's own news releases used as 'proof' of something or the other. There's simply no fig leaf in that latter case.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 09:01 AM
 
82 posts, read 73,572 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
So I guess if the most educated group we have is making mistakes, what we need is LESS educated people! And then if they fail we can just let babies run the economy.
If we need LESS educated people, then the concept of wholesale importation of campesinos seems to be doing the trick.

I've always thought that the country could stand to have it's average level of education raised, but the allure of cheaper frozen chickens appears to be winning.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 09:03 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRavenSpeaks View Post
If we need LESS educated people, then the concept of wholesale importation of campesinos seems to be doing the trick.

I've always thought that the country could stand to have it's average level of education raised, but the allure of cheaper frozen chickens appears to be winning.
Education can be useful or useless depending on the situation. Many hard labor jobs are just as easily filled by less educated workers.

Good job reducing the benefits of the free movement of labor to "cheaper frozen chickens," though.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 09:48 AM
 
106 posts, read 215,803 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Keep saying it and eventually it will be true!

As has been said, most illegal immigrants are not making enough to pay federal income taxes (though some do pay them through faked SS numbers etc.) Almost every other tax is unavoidable. They obviously pay sales taxes, any renter is paying property taxes indirectly, and so forth. Of course, as has been said over and over and over, there are two solutions to illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes. You can A. deport them! or B. give them legal status so that they are then on the government radar.

I like that this thread is all about how fancy schmancy academic types are not in a position to judge this issue, and then every post therein has demonstrated the total lack of ability on the part of many posters to understand economics in the slightest. But no, I'm sure that being able to spot faulty research methods or interpret data is a totally useless skill in this debate.




If you gave everyone in the country a raise they'd all be paying more taxes! OMG deficit solved, right? McDonald's workers are making so little, what a drain on the economy! Double their wages so they're paying more taxes. You are an economics wizard. You need to get this peer reviewed.



Raises for everyone to increase buying power!

Here's a tiny hypothetical for you: I want to hire someone to cut my grass. I have $20, $10 of which I'm willing to spend. You offer to do it for $11. I say no. Another hardworking American offers $10, and an illegal immigrant offers $8. I pay the immigrant. Now I have $12 and he has $8. Was there a change in "buying power" right there?
Your solution is to take a group of people that are breaking multiple laws, avoiding taxes, abusing social services and making them officially eligible for even more Govt handouts? Granting amnesty won't put them in a higher earning bracket.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 09:54 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Keep saying it and eventually it will be true!

As has been said, most illegal immigrants are not making enough to pay federal income taxes (though some do pay them through faked SS numbers etc.) Almost every other tax is unavoidable. They obviously pay sales taxes, any renter is paying property taxes indirectly, and so forth. Of course, as has been said over and over and over, there are two solutions to illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes. You can A. deport them! or B. give them legal status so that they are then on the government radar.

I like that this thread is all about how fancy schmancy academic types are not in a position to judge this issue, and then every post therein has demonstrated the total lack of ability on the part of many posters to understand economics in the slightest. But no, I'm sure that being able to spot faulty research methods or interpret data is a totally useless skill in this debate.




If you gave everyone in the country a raise they'd all be paying more taxes! OMG deficit solved, right? McDonald's workers are making so little, what a drain on the economy! Double their wages so they're paying more taxes. You are an economics wizard. You need to get this peer reviewed.



Raises for everyone to increase buying power!

Here's a tiny hypothetical for you: I want to hire someone to cut my grass. I have $20, $10 of which I'm willing to spend. You offer to do it for $11. I say no. Another hardworking American offers $10, and an illegal immigrant offers $8. I pay the immigrant. Now I have $12 and he has $8. Was there a change in "buying power" right there?
So then according to your economic theories you would be against amnesy because the illegals pay would have to be raised to the same standard of pay that an American would get? You just blew your own argument. Thanks for sharing.
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